Where can I find reviews for climbing and mountaineering equipment? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

GearReview.com
GORP
OutdoorReview.com
Pete's Packs Page on how to choose a pack
The Gear Critic on cascadeclimbers.com

What do people think of shoes from Climbingshoes.com? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Wade Lippman

I haven't tried the shoes, but making a climbing shoe isn't rocket science, so they ought to be fine. However, buying a shoe you haven't tried on is crazy. Unless they have a great return policy and you are willing to go though it...

From: Dawn Alguard

They do and I'm the laziest thing on earth about returning stuff and I managed. The shoes come with everything you need to return them including a check-box form for whether you want a different size or a refund. No need to call, write, or send money.

From: Mike Rawdon

Although they are still very new, the Kermits (basically a clone of the LaSportiva Synchro, but maybe a tad wider) that I bought are very impressive in both fit and quality of construction. I think the rands are soft-but-not-sticky rubber, but I am delighted with them for edging and wider cracks. They have a stiff midsole so of course they are not as sensitive as a softer shoe. But they're just the thing for comfortably cruising multi-pitch routes below my limit. I think I got them from Mountain Gear for $69.

From: A. Jonson

In August 2000, I bought the Firewalls and Kermits as replacements when my regular shoes were stolen. I was planning on using them for a few months until I decided what kind of shoe to get next. But I have yet to replace them since I have been so happy with them.

The quality of the construction is surprising when you look at the prices. I have used the Kermits 1-3 days a week all this summer and they still are holding up (though they are due for a resole). I have used the Firewalls slightly less (1-2 days a week) and they still are in excellent shape.

See also:

Climbingshoes.com
Firewall Review from GearReview.com
Firewall from Epinions
Terabyte Review from GearReview.com
Terabyte from Epinions
Kermit Review from GearReview.com
Kermit from Epinions
Climbingshoes.com, specifically Kermits from Epinions

What do people think about Rock Empire cams? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

Note: some of these posts are from Gunks.com

From: Anna V

The North American distributor of Rock Empire's name is Zdenek, and you can go to Rock Empire to see either the American or Canadian catalogues. Failing that, you could also visit Climb-On ...it's a store in Squamish that carries a lot of czech-made gear.

From: Mike Achter

Just got my set a week ago. I like 'em (except for the largest one... wanna buy it?) Made by Hudysport, distributed by Rock Empire. Good stuff & cheap -- for now. I saw their retail price list; still cheaper than US manufacturers, but not by much. One major difference - no cam stops.

From: Patrick Karlsson

I was in need of a set of micro cams (any model) and found out that Rock Empire manufactures a set of three cams in the range of 11,5 - 24,5 cm. This is approximately the 0.43 - 0.75 sizes of Aliens, but they have a smaller usable range per cam then Aliens or BD. I tried them out yesterday and they all passed my requirements.

From: Jon

I have the whole set (1-8) and i luv them. My friend fell on a micro one and it held fine and was easy to clean.

From: Mike Rawdon

IMO they are well made and they DO work (I fell on one the 2nd time I used 'em).

From: Steveyo

Never fell on them, but since they're UIAA and CE approved, I do not worry about their integrity.

From: Vlad

I have two sets (8-piece sets) and use them a lot, espetially small ones - almost every pitch I use all 6 small units. Here in Yosemite granite.

Larger units have middle cams placed too close, IMO. The black and red unit are a bit hard to place becase of that, harder than WC or Camalots of similar size. But given the price - I still won't replace them.

I got brass nuts from them also and I hate them.

From: Mr. Pete

rock empire cams look horrible and feel horrible. IMO the cams are set too near so they could fall over in shallow placements. They are cheap though.

From: Matthew Buckle

The action on the rock empire cams feels really loose, and the finish on these puppies is no where near the quality of the more expensive brands. I would guess they would hold a fall near as well as any other cam, but I wouldn't want 'em on my rack if I had the choise.

From: Llamakid

The rock empire and the Trango aren't the same cams. My partner and I first bought the Trango's, about a year ago, because they were the cheapest($44). My partner got a set of rock empire's a month ago($17), and there's no comparison. Half the price, twice the quality. I'd say they're most like the DMM's quality, while the Trangos are like....Trangos.

From: Stinkwagon

I bought one Rock-Empire cam and I don't like it. It's all sticky and tough to place, unlike my more expensive version cams. The RE cam was not too sticky when I first bought it, but it is now, after about 2 years of being carried on my rack and being placed about 3 times. Note that a couple of the glowing reviews on the FAQ above indicate that the reviewer has purchased them like "a week ago".

From: Ilkka

The above seems to be the case with lots of cheap gear. In the beginning they work without a problem, but after some water, sand, dirt, snow etc they get to be hard to operate. For me the worst experiences have been with climbing buddies buying the cheapest possible locking carabiners. The #¤¤%&##s can't be screwn open if there is snow within a radius of 50 km.

The way I see it: buy cheap gear if you can't afford major brand stuff and start start saving money for replacements.

From: Pico

I've heard nothing terribly bad about the rock empire cams. if you are worried about them sticking then I might be able to direct you to a few people who have had there $65 camalots stick as well. Or if you are not impressed by BD maybe Metolius or Wildcountry. All cams eventually gunk up Moving parts gunk up from sand, dust and grit. Simply clean and very lightly lube them every now and then. What lube is up to you but something light and possibly a dry type lube is best. I just got my rock empires as a second set to compliment my set of camalots and metolius tcus. You can tell they do not have the range of the Camalots with the double axle but they are CE certified (as well as UIAA) and honestly a cam is a cam. If you choose to pay more go for it. If not Rock Empire looks pretty nice.

See also:

Hudy Sport (the manufacturer - site in Czech)

Should I buy a Petzl Tikka headlamp? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Bill Zaumen

I just picked one up (after seeing a demo). The guys selling them said it won't illuminate a wet trail very well (you need a much brighter light for that), but is fine when it is dry out. It weighs only 70 grams, including batteries.

It uses three LEDs with a reflector built around them, take 3 AAA batteries, and the batteries will last 150 hours (although the intensity falls off with time). With fresh batteries you can see about 10 meters ahead at the edge of what you can see with it, according to the graph that comes in the package, although that falls off to about 4 meters after 12 hours. With 3 LEDs, there should be some protection against bulb failure.

I wouldn't use it as a primary light on a wall or glacier, where you would want to see further ahead, but if you want something that weighs next to nothing to stuff into your pack just in case, the this seems to be a good choice.

From: Jonathan Pryce

The Rage Against the Tikka

At first glance, the new Petzl Tikka looks great. Slick design, 2-1/2 oz. weight includes the 3 AAA batteries, and it's very compact, 2-1/4 inches across, 1-1/4 inches deep. Although you can't adjust the width or angle of the beam, the Tikka's four LED bulbs noticeably outshine their Petzl brethren.

Sound too good to be true? Might be. First, Petzl explicitly admonishes the user to dry the lamp thoroughly after service in wet conditions. Begs the question, where, in your dank tent? Appears they have concerns about the product's performance in damp conditions. Not exactly a recommendation given our mossy moist Northwest clime, eh? Note, too, the lack of gaskets-or any sealing mechanism that would obviate them-in the Tikka's battery case and lamp face.

Then, what do you do if the bulbs go out? You can't replace them in the field, or anywhere else for that matter, not in a box, not with a fox, not here, not there, not anywhere-spare bulbs are not offered as a purchasable item.

And when will the unit fail? At 1 am on a volcano climb. Of course. Five miles from your car on a pitch black night on a narrow or bad or no trail. Naturally. Knock on wood and include an injured person in the scenario. More benignly, stormbound in your tent, sung in your bag, hot toddy in hand, safe from phones, lights and motor cars when you finally have a chance to read that great book.

What now? If changing the batteries yields nothing, Petzl recommends you simply return the product to them for prompt repair or replacement.

Well, amigo, you're out of luck if the courier marmot has already made his pick up run for the week. At least with the Petzl Micro or the other older Petzl models, you can replace the bulb. And the technology is much simpler: batteries, contacts and said bulb. Even if bulb replacement yields no results, you still stand a fighting chance of troubleshooting and fixing.

OK, so it's light, bright and its looks are dynamite, but if the Petzl Tikka gives up the ghost, it fails in your lap and you're up Merde Creek. Cute, great for car camping or as a reading light in the tent, but not something I 'd rely on as my primary lamp.

From: Matt Rogers

Jon, the petzl Tikka's LED lights are a much safer design than incandescant bulbs because of their long life span(can't burn out the filament because there is none), durability, can't easily break a solid glass capsule(regular bulbs can be smashed very easily) and low energy use(150 hours) The only downfall is the lack of waterproofness, but not all of Petzl's headlamps are designed to be waterproof, it's just not needed.

From: Jeremy the Sumo Climber

It's a great light-duty use lamp; but anything that requires more light (climbing, difficult descents, etc) is going to be beyond the scope of this thing.

From: Rob Williams

Seems you'd be better off just getting one that has all the features you want rather than one you reserve for light duty application. 'Course like anything, "it depends". I know up here in the NW I'm not likely to purchase a headlamp that doesn't function after a little rain.

From: Brent Ware

Well, yes, to answer your question, I will use a light-duty headlamp for camp use and maybe throw it into the pack for those climbs where I don't really expect to need a headlamp but what the heck, it doesn't weigh much. It weighs a heck of a lot less than my Zoom with the extra battery (and I *always* carry an extra battery). I'll save the $7/6-8 hour flat-pack batteries for when I need them (walls, long alpine days), and use the cheap 150 hour AAA batteries for use around camp and reading (which is also about 75% of my headlamp use). Makes sense to me. At about $3/150 hours = 2 cents/hour vs. $7/7 hours = $1/hour (not including new bulbs), I figure the Tikka will pay for itself pretty darn quick.

From: David Emrich

But one of the features many of us need is small & light. Can't get that in a Zoom or other full sized lamp. Some of us wont take a full sized headlamp when we don't plan to use it. But there are times we would take the Tikka "just in case." I'm sure I'm not the only one who has topped out after dark, when I had planned to be done before then - it sure would be nice to have the Tikka at times like that. It takes up about as much space in my pocket as an extra Boulder Bar.

The Tikka water problems aren't that big of a thing. A little water in the switch means that it won't switch off completely. It still goes on though.

I'm sure it is possible short it so it won't light. Not sure if that would happen in a rain storm though (I've tested mine under running water). Especially if it's somewhat protected by hat or hood. And of course you could put a waterproof bandaid across the top (after you turn it on).

From: Rebecca Beyer

I've enjoyed reading the heated discussion about the TIKKA. As a representative from Petzl, let me acknowledge some facts about the TIKKA:

1. LED (light emitting diodes) are not bulbs, they do not contain breakable filaments, will not emit heat, and are virtually unbreakable.

2. The TIKKA's LED's operate independently of one another, so rest assured you will still have light if one diode fails. It is, however, extremely unlikely that this would occur.

3. Waterproofness in headlamps is mostly a marketing tool. Unless you need one for continuous use in a humid environment, stick with the regular variety. Waterproof headlamps may need additional maintenance (e.g. greasing o-rings, cleaning seals, etc.), and can actually increase the chances of corrosion by trapping moisture inside the lamp. Thus, it is important to air dry a lamp regardless of its waterproof status.

4. Due to the power source of headlamps (batteries), they run on direct current which will not short out in water. Our headlamps will still run even when submerged.

As a climber and outdoor recreationist, I am convinced that the TIKKA is the best headlamp on the market. Halogen bulbs offer brighter light and longer distance range (100 meters), but LED's offer a cleaner, more diffuse white light for proximity lighting (10-15 meters).

Rebecca Beyer
Assistant- Headlamp Division
Petzl

P.S. Notes from the fringe: For those of you who care, the Tikka/4.5V Zoom battery combo has been alive for 864 hours and still going. Energizer bunny, eat your heart out.

From: Mark in Thailand, 8/22/2002

I've got both the Tikka and the Zipka. If you're going to get one, get the Zipka. It is SMALL and the fact that the headband "zips" into the case is great. I thought it was a gimmick, but it is a really good design--much easier to stash than the Tikke. The Tikka MIGHT be more comfy (I'm not sure), but the Zipka is the tops in terms of a headlamp you can stash and not worry about until you need it. Nothing is as small.

From: Rob Williams

I look forward to the day when Petzl will offer us a LED replacement bulb for our ZOOM headlamps.

From: Bill Zaumon

You can already buy one from various sources listed in climbing magazines (you can get the bulbs through REI as well). They consist of 3 LEDs mounted on the base of a normal incadescent bulb, so you just insert it like any other bulb (you may have to switch the battery too, since current can flow only in one direction through a diode. I tried one---they are not quite as bright as the incadescent bulbs, and don't work nearly as well as Tikkas. I suspect the reason is in part that a ZOOM was designed for a point light source, with reflectors and a lens to focus the light appropriately, and the three LEDs are almost, but not quite, in the right place for this to work optimally.

See also:

Petzl Tikka review on Backpacker.com
Buy a Petzl Tikka from REI.com

Is the Petzl Reverso a useful device? / How do I use it? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Hank Moon at Petzl

Following extensive testing, Petzl has discovered some potentially dangerous situations when belaying 2 seconds climbing at the same time with small-diameter ropes (8mm to 8.5mm). Please go to Petzl's web site for more information (the update will pop up directly from this page). You may also download this information (REVERSO technical notice - pdf format), from the REVERSO product page on the site.

If you have any questions concerning this update, please contact Hank Moon or 801 327 3848.

From: Kreighton

Pros:

- easy, 'hands free' autolocking belay for a second or two seconds.

- safest, easiest and cleanest way I know of to belay two seconds moving at different speeds (well, that and GiGi plates)

- light, not an extra piece of gear

- raps smoothly, can flip around for extra friction (nice when simul rapping on an 8mm)

- can be used as an ascender in an emergency (though I haven't tried this yet)

- speedy belay changeovers. If you do it right you don't need to anchor your second - leave them on the reverso then you can lean in and clip the reverso to your belay loop, then unclip it from the anchor (takes some practice)

Cons:

- makes a weird clanky sound on my harness

- doesn't seem to feed rope as fast, at least with a 10.5, when lead belaying

- use a fat/fuzzy 10.5 or larger and prepare for a triceps or shoulder workout belaying your seconds - skinny ropes are fine

- requires you to carry one extra locker

- I find it a bit harder to use (than an ATC) when getting on rappel. I suspect the large metal loop vs. the flexible cable, but no one else I know has this problem.

- I dropped if off of DAFF dome, so that was a drag but not Petzl's fault ;-)

- very hard to pay out slack safely to a second who needs it. This necessitates better communication w/ your second.

Bottom line:

Why not? If you ever bring up seconds, certainly two seconds, it is worth it. You don't have to use it in 'autolock' mode, you can still use it similar to an ATC if the situation warrants, but you have the extra flexibility. I just took my ATC and dedicated it to gym use with my old harness.

From: Greg Sadowy

I've used mine couple of times for belaying a second and for rappelling. In both cases, I used it in standard (non-locking) tube mode. It has less friction than my Jaws, as you might expect. I found it perfectly adequate for both belaying and rappelling but with nothing in particular to recommend it over an ATC or the tube of your choice. I mostly bought it 'cause I have a weak mind and can't resist shiny things.

I haven't yet used it in auto-locking mode. I'm a bit nervous about not being able to lower my second. Until I work out a good way to rig it to lower and practice with it, I'd rather not.

You mentioned that you need an auto locker for your second; do you really? I've never had much trouble holding a locked off second with my ATC or Jaws. I suppose it could be convenient, but I'm not yet convinced that it is a really valuable feature. It's especially convenient if you are belaying two seconds simultaneously, but I've never done that.

From: Dawn Alguard

I didn't like it. Too noisy. Plus in my little world I'm a lot more likely to need to give slack to a second than to catch a second. I like the Jaws. You can't actually take your hand off but you don't need to apply much pressure and you get that extra holding power when you're holding a leader or rappelling as well.

From: Carol Haynes

I wouldn't bother with the reverso - as a standard belay device it is similar to the ATC but bulkier and heavier.

Self locking mode is not really worth having and has some potential for causing problems. It really is remarkably difficult to release the self locking mode, even when it is only slightly loaded (i.e. just a bit of tension bringing up a second) and if you are unhappy using a standard device I would guess you level of ability would make this a serious drawback. (That was not meant to be patronising by the way - honest)

If you want a self locking device carry a GriGri or similar, but for most purposes an ATC is ideal for leader and second.

If you are worried about holding a fall then use something with more friction, such as an old fashioned belay plate. You can vary the friction by clipping an extra karabiner between device and the krab on your harness.

From: Robert Fonda

Don't bother with these 'auto locking devices' for now. Just learn proper belay technique. When I first started I swore by the GriGri as the end all belay device. I still love them, but I only use them for aid climbing where the leads can take for ever. Just learn to use an ATC and be done with it. You won't need to carry a rap device & a belay device, and they weigh next to nothing.

From: Booker Bense

The reverso works just fine as an ATC like belay/rap device. You'd carry it INSTEAD of not in ADDITION to.

From: Karl Baba

Did Stoner's Highway with a fellow Rec.climber today. Left my pack on the ground and pulled it up with the rap line from the top of pitch 2. It had 2 liters of water and a digital camera in it so it weighed more than I wanted to hand haul on an 8.8 line for 2oo feet. I ran it though the reverso in autolock mode and when I got tired of hauling up the bag, it snagged the line so I could rest.

I have found many various occaisional uses for this device which also works fine just like an ATC. Why not have additional functionality with hardly any additional weight or price?

I like the way it rappels and belays, and I like it much better than a Gi-gi for belaying two seconds. Smaller diameter ropes work great and 10.5 isn't a problem if it is a "slippery" limp rope. You won't be able to bring up a second using a 10.5 Stratos cable or other stiff ropes though.

I even belayed myself up a 5.10 slab route on TR.

It's cheap too, many more tricks possible than with an ATC.

From: Kai Larson

I've used my Reverso quite a bit. It pretty much works as advertised, functioning as both an ATC device for belaying the leader and rappelling and a GiGi device for belaying one or two seconds.

My only gripe is that it doesn't provide enough friction in rappell/leader belay mode when using 8mm ropes. When using new 8.1 mm ropes, I found that I needed to use two carabiners to provide enough friction for long free-hanging rappells, even when wearing gloves. This isn't too big an issue, because you need to use two carabiners to use the device in autolock mode, so you probably are carrying a second belay biner anyway.

Compared with my Trango Jaws device, however, getting the rope inserted into the Reverso with two carabiners required a bit more fiddling, and took a bit more time to set up on multiple long rappels.

I just bought a pair of the new Mammut 7.5mm ropes, but I haven't tested the Reverso with them yet. Hopefully two carabiners will provide adequate friction.

That said, I really like the autolocking feature when belaying the second. I feel less guilty about snapping pictures, eating, and drinking while belaying my partner up a pitch.

I will probably use the Reverso as my main belay device in spite of needing two friction carabiners, simply because it combines the functions of a GiGi and ATC into one unit, allowing me to carry one less piece of gear.

From: Karl Baba

Well, maybe I don't fully understand the above statement, but there is no reason you can't belay with two ropes on an ATC.

If one of the seconds falls or hangs, I believe the other second would have to stop wherever they were until the situation was resolved. With a reverso, you can keep belaying one second if the other second is hanging on the rope.

From: Carol Haynes

With only one second it is very difficult to give any slack (say to unclip a runner that has become tight), and it will be even harder to do with two seconds climbing simultaneously.

The only way you could lower someone (rare I know - but what about a falling rock hurting someone so they can't climb) is to completely remove them from the Reverso (a non-trivial event in an emergency) and then reattach them in normal belay mode. The only alternative would be to use the device and a prusik to haul them - not something you want to do unless you absolutely have to !!!

From: Jay Philbrick

A device such as the Reverso that allows for a self-locking belay of the second when used off the anchor can also make for an easier and more comfortable, safe belay if things don't go quite as planned. The USMGA was so impressed by this device and all the things it could do that it bought one for every endorsed guide in the country to use in his or her work. For a review, go to http://www.usmga.net/resourcesgear.htm. For explanations and a photo of transitions from self-locking to lower modes, see Reverso Transitions or send an email to info@usmga.net

From: Jason Liebgott

I'm completely happy with it. I ended up doing almost all the leading this season, so having the auto-locking for the 2nd was perfect (much easier on the shoulders). I felt that it rappelled much smoother than the ATC, and it seemed to offer a softer catch to leaders falling on sport routes. The rounded edge is smooth!

The only time I don't use the auto-locking is if I feel that the 2nd might not make it up and will need to be lowered. That way I avoid the clunky lowering set up.

From: Greg Sadowy

Also, last weekend I discovered that it opens beers *much* better than an ATC. The rounded edges of an ATC make it difficult to catch the lip of the cap whereas the flat part of the reverso works well. No kidding. I'm sold.

See also:

Buy a Reverso from REI
Reverso Transitions

What are Petzl Tiblocs good for? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Brian Nystrom, 4/8/2000

I started carrying a pair in lieu of bulkier, heavier prussiks, which I never used anyway. Clip a sling (which I always carry and use constantly) into a Tibloc and you have an instant prussick.

From: Carol Haynes, 5/25/2001

I would say they are a great bit of emergency kit as they weigh nothing and are easy to use.

Having said that I wouldn't replace my prussiks with them as they have different functions (eg. you can't use them as a backup for abseiling), and I wouldn't use them on a regular basis as they can chew ropes a bit.

From: Paul Brooks, 6/10/2002

I rate them as far superior for crevasse rescue (hauling system anyway - I still keep a prussik attached & another handy for climbing out).

From: Mike Clark, 5/28/2001

Whilst ski-touring earlier this year my friends attempted to use a Tibloc for practising prussiking out of a crevasse. They discovered that snow can freeze and block up the teeth and prevent it from working! In the end they resorted to conventional prussik knots to climb out.

From: uptowns, 4/6/2000

Generally, the novice to intermediate glacier climber usually pre rigs his prussik setup so there is no worry or fuss

The problem with the pre-rigging argument is what happens when you bump up against the overhanging lip of the crevasse. A tibloc would be easier to take off and re-attach above the lip when the victim is stressed.

From: RMB, 2/17/2000

Works great for the weight. Doesn't work great on frozen nasties. Also I found it almost impossible to use descending something like a fixed line if yer wearing gloves. Make sure you try the rope diameter you want to use. It works kinda sketchy on the less than 8.6mm threads...

From: Tim H., 6/12/2002

for me the problem is that while they are a little easier (once you get used to them) for ascending a rope, they have the annoying habit of sliding up (or down) the rope when no load is applied to them. Prussik (and related) knots don't do this of course they generally stay put.

The Prussik knot also works "both ways" and that can be useful sometimes.

From: Karl Lew, 5/5/1999

The only thing I've got against the Tibloc is that it won't *slide* like my trusty old friction knot. Other than that, it seems way cool.

From: Michael Riches, 1/1/2001

Can you put one on the rope with one hand and not risk dropping it?

Never tried, but I think it would be hard considering the biner...

Also, can they pop off the rope like jummars can?

Nope...The biner locks them on the rope with absolutely no chance of popping...

For that matter, has anyone tried jugging up a rope using Tiblocs when the rope was weighted, like it would be if your partner fell and you had to get to him?

Yep...they work great for this...the only problem I've had using Tiblocs as prussics is on larger ropes, say the 11 mill variety...they tend to jamb and are hard to manipulate.

Granted it's easier to set them up with both hands but they set up a lot faster than the prussic and in adverse conditions (wet frozen ropes) they are very positive where a prussic can slip...

They have their limitations, like every other piece of climbing gear, they can be a real nightmare on the sheath of your rope...especially in a fall. As long as you know and understand these problems these little jewels will serve you well...

From: Karl Baba, 12/31/2000

I think Tiblocs are faster and easier to rig into makeshift hauling systems. That can count in self-rescue situations. Two Tiblocs and a belay device will make you a z-rig if it gets really bad.

They also have controversial simul-climbing applications if time gets short on moderate ground on a long route that you don't want to bivy on.

They jug better and safer than prussiks too, since they aren't prone to slip and burn through.

also they make tinkling sounds like cow bells.

From: Rex Pieper, 1/2/2001

I think Tiblocs are far too specialized for the average climber when the various types of prussik/mule/kleimheist knots can often be improvised out of the standard rack.

From: Michael Riches, 6/26/2001

In all the testing we did, the prussic (my own grammatical choice...) was able to catch the load within two inches...but the alternative was no slippage and severe rope damage. The Tibloc instantaneously popped the sheath, but may have been alright in the dynamic dept., if we could have finished our testing...the rest of the mechanical devices not only damaged the sheath but in several cases fatally damaged the core of the rope. Although the prussic was somewhat static it didn't damage the rope...it may have put a lot of unwanted stress on the anchors, but the rope was never once injured...

From: Hank Moon, 6/27/2001

Comment: You are losing time testing the TIBLOC with rescue loads and 1/2" rope. This test is so far outside of its design parameters (ex: max rope diameter is 11 mm), that no rescue agency would ever consider it for such a use.

From: Ted Compton, 4/5/2000

The teeth of the device must be fully engaged with the rope before the device is loaded. Used properly this device is quite safe.

From: Tom Rogers, 4/5/2000

This may be true. But a design which would require all teeth to seat fully before each and every pull to work properly or else shred a rope is poor.

I would think as a rescue device that this would be a recipe for a tragedy. One needs the gear to work when the climber is not in his proper senses. If someone is hurt in the bottom of a crevasse or drenched in freezing melt water the last thing they will be ensuring is "are the damn teeth fully engaged". My vote is "if it shreds the rope with someone jugging out" then it is a poor design. I'll keep my prissiks.

From: Jason Huckaby, 4/5/2000

There is a big warning in the instruction sheet regarding rope shred potential. It would seem that if you don't weight the device properly, (to get necessary clamping force on the rope) it could do what you described. I'm not sure what the best way to get that clamping force is. I think the tibloc is more an "emergency / convience" device anyway.. not really to be used as a true asecender. Thanks for the warning... I'll think twice before using it in practice on my new rope.

From: David Kastrup, 1/17/2001

I really wouldn't recommend using these things to tie someone off unless they've been tested for that by the manufacturer (I'm sure Petzl would do a careful job of that if they thought it was a reasonable use of these gizmos).

They specify the fall factors under which the devices may be used with what consequences. That would include tie-off use as long as the device is set up in a way that it properly sits on the rope in the moment of tension.

The teeth of the TiBloc are not more impressive than that of a usual Jumar. The problem people have with using a Tibloc is that they are afraid it will break the rope. However, under the loads under which a Tibloc breaks a rope, prusiks will break, slide or melt. If you are feeling more comfortable dying with an intact rope, prusiks might be the thing to use. Artificially introducing an unnecessarily weak link might not be too prudent to do.

Of course, you can tie off using a prusik and then fix a Tibloc as a backup downstream (or the other way round). Redundancy is always a good idea.

Regular ascenders are more handy for going up a rope. As long as you are *planning* on going up a rope, they are alright. If you are not planning anything, their weight (factor 5?) and size makes it much less handy to be carrying them around "just in case".

From: MadDog, 1/17/2001

Petzl test results for 11 mm dynamic rope (80kg mass):

Factor 0.5 fall drop test (2.7 kN): no sheath damage
Factor 1 fall drop test (4.5 kN): no sheath damage
Static load of 6.9 kN: risk limited to sheath

For these tests, Petzl claims the Tibloc provides safety.

From: RMB, 2/17/2000

Oh, and use an OVAL shaped cross-section biner only.

From: Dave Fasulo, 9/29/1999

Just a warning, I recently saw an "adventure racer" shred a rope using a tribloc because he a standard D locking biner. The tribloc just slid down the rope shredding the sheath. You have to use a round stock biner, like a Petzl attache, for a tribloc to work.

From: Karl Lew, 6/14/1999

Tiblocs are great. I had to take up slack and assist my follower with a Tibloc. Fast setup and real smooth operation. Unexpected benefit was that it slides back down the rope by itself with a little nudge so it's ready for the next tug. Muenter above, Tibloc below. Not enuf to raise an unconscious climer, but great for assist. Be sure to use a keeper cord. I've dropped mine twice already.

From: Tim Stich, 1/1/2001

One cool thing about Tiblocs is that you can make a racheting pulley with them. The Tibloc rotates about the carabiner and grabs the rope when a load is lowered slightly. This allows you to rest and get another grip. Try to do that one-handed with a prussik progress capture. You would need a prussik-minding pulley for that.

From: Amoebatron, 6/1/1999

However, for light use, such as preventing the bag you're hauling up a pitch from slipping back down, it works very well. To be honest, in an emergency I think I'd be happier using a prussik knot than a Tibloc, and I certainly wouldn't consider using it on a regular basis due to the possibility of causing rope damage. A friend of mine has a Wild Country Ropeman, and has used this to ascend from the bottom of Alum Pot without any problems. It costs more than a Tibloc and is a bit heavier,but then again it's probably less likely to spend all it's life sat at the bottom of a dangly bag.

From: Chris Kantarjiev, 10/4/1999

I have the new Ropeman - bought it about a month before the Tibloc became available. I've used them side by side. The Ropeman is heavier, more expensive, and much fiddlier to get on and off the rope, and also fiddly to release (to move it back down). It's possible that it's better for "extended" use ... but I'd recommend that folks buy a Tibloc. It's freakin' elegant in its simplicity.

From: Brian in SLC, 6/17/1999 >

So would one of these work as a rappel backup? Would it snag too much?

I think it would snag too much. Seems kinda hard to keep oriented in the "off" position. Also may be a bummer to unload as the teeth in these critters are pretty "sticky".

From: Karl Lew, 9/27/1999

don't use it for rap backup--it will shred your rope

From: David Kastrup, 12/30/2001

Look at a standard Jumar (like Petzl Basic). Lots of teeth, too, and similar specs. Tibloc is ok to have around, as long as you heed its usage instructions. Which, like with most cams, means no free fall into it. Which makes it unhandy for soloing

From: Karl Lew, 10/14/1999

Don't use the tibloc that way (to catch a TR fall). It will chop up your nice rope.

See also:

Petzl Tibloc from Petzl
Buy Tiblocs from REI
Petzl Tibloc on GearReview.com, 8/21/2001
How do I use Tiblocs to protect against the second falling while simul-climbing? on Tradgirl

Tiblocs threads in other languages:

Russian, 5/19/2000
German, 6/26/1999
German, 4/18/2001
German, 5/14/2001
Polish, 9/5/1999
Polish, 9/6/1999

Gear Reviews: Page 1 2

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