What do I need to set up topropes outside? / How do I get started?
Should I use webbing or static rope for my toprope anchor?
What should I use to pad a sharp edge?
Is it safe to toprope on static rope?
How do I set up a toprope so that it's equalized correctly?
How do I toprope a route that is longer than half a rope length?
How do I carry and store large lengths of webbing?
How can I get hurt while top-roping? (avoiding common errors)
I'm going to [place]. What can I toprope there?
What do I need to set up topropes outside? / How do I get started? [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
From: Adrian McNair
For climbing outside you really are going to want to take a course, meet
somebody who is already a pro, or really really study a good book which
explains toprope setup properly.
From: Eric Hueser
I would recommend that you read these books, they are packed with
good diagrams and descriptions:
1. Climbing Anchors by John Long
or
2. How to Rock Climb also by John Long
From: Mike Farris
Read Toproping, by S. Peter Lewis (How to Rock Climb Series)
From: James Waldrop
Basically I've read a long list of books that people recommend, and when
it comes to setting up anchors a lot of books talk about it a bit, but
don't go into the depth you find you really need when you get out there
for the first time. The best/only one in my experience is Freedom of
the Hills, which many people here swear by. If you have one of the
other books, you can pretty much expect to be confused the first time
you try to setup anchors.
I strongly second the advice from one person, that you try setting up
some anchors in non-top-rope situations, just to get practice.
Also, no matter how you learn it, make sure you have someone experienced
check your setup. Your life depends on getting this stuff right.
From: Bob Ternes
Get a copy of John Long's 'Anchors.' (Climbing Anchors and More Climbing Anchors)
And then buy Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills and read both cover to
cover, twice.
As a final note, I urge you to educate yourself before you screw up someone
else's day.
From: Robert Allen
It depends on where you climb. However in his basic rockclimbing
book John Long gives some examples of what you need to toprope.
Basically you need an arbitrary length of webbing/slings depending
on where you climb, a few locking carabiners, a rope, and some
harnesses (shoes are optional). If your anchor choices are extremely
limited you could also need stoppers, cams, etc., too.
I would highly advise paying for some basic rockclimbing classes
before setting up your own toprope anchor. Your life depends
on the quality of your toprope anchor. If you blow it you
could die.
From: Mateo
John Long's book on climbing anchors, and a couple of days with a climbing
instrucor are the first two things you need to climb safely. I had my
first class (though it was two days, and I half slept through the first)
six years after I had started climbing, and was amazed at some of the
basics I had missed....
From: Stu Hammet
Invest in a good length of the burly static, take a manual or two, and
go on out to a route with some mighty trees at the top. Spend an hour or
more creating the most perfect setup you can. Then tweak it some more.
Then hang a rope, get your belayer and climb. I don't mean to oversimplify
things, but don't get too hung up on the mystique. You sound like you're
taking a thoughtful approach and I'm guessing you're ready. It's a big
mental hurdle the first time you hang on an anchor you devised yourself, but
it's the first of many in this business. I say go for it. Choose an easy
route, obviously, and check the anchor constantly to see how it's
responding.
From: Tim Nam
You'll prbably want a rope, a harness, and a few quickdraws, some
slings/webbing for setting up topropes, as well as a few locking D's. All
that will probably set you back about three hundred bucks.
From: Chris Weaver
If you don't have friends who have the equipment, you'll probably need the
following:
harness
See also:
Should I use webbing or static rope for my toprope anchor? on Tradgirl
Should I use webbing or static rope for my toprope anchor? [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
From: Douglas McMullin
Depends on the length needed. Spectra slings or cordellets for short
runs. 9 or 10mm Static for long spans. Static is much more durable
than long lenghts of webbing plus you can make some nifty adjustable
systems that you cant do with webbing. Webbing is fine though... If
you happen to like it.
From: Tom Moyer
Static rope is very good at taking abrasion. Tape (webbing) is
bad. We've had this discussion before.
From: Ken Cline
According to them, BWII static rope is definitely
better than webbing over an abrasive edge. Specifically, static ropes
are designed with sheaths to resist this sort of abrasion.
In any case, I've used static ropes for tope roping for years and have
found them to be nearly impervious when carefully setup and lightly
padded.
Regardless of what material you use, having a backup is good practice.
From: Irishman
Static rope has only two drawbacks I can think of. Weight & Bulk. Those
can be a pretty big deal considering you can't always setup with just one
40' rope.
From: Cam Sanders
1" tubular webbing is fine... don't cringe, I know dozens of people that
have used it for many years without ever an incident. Webbing is also easy
to work with, because it is so pliable. I've set up entire anchors with
knots in webbing placed in crack constrictions and they are beautiful
because they are so clean. This can be especially handy when the anchor must
wrap around curved rock that might stress a biner perpendicular to its
spine. It is easy to make knots of varying sizes for such application with
webbing, so if you are short on gear, this can save you the cost of some
stoppers. (Caveat! If you have no experience with passive chocks, then don't
do this without having someone with experience inspect the placements.)
A simple overhand knot in tubular webbing is sufficient for most any top
roping applications (providing you give several inches of tail). Also make
certain that the webbing is placed so it won't be sawed by the rock while
you are climbing; although it is more durable than most people believe. Of
course, always run at least two anchor lines (preferably three) down to the
biners holding the rope. Redundancy is good.
Save some pack space and weight and use 1" tubular webbing instead of the
static line.
From: Ken Cline
One foot of static rope costs 75 cents at REI. Webbing is 30 cents.
Slings made of webbing twice that - pretty close to the cost of static
rope. Static rope has the potental to be more economical in the long
run because of its better durability.
From: Matt Rogers
At my home crag I frequently have to use three anchor points an average of
40 feet back to get a good setup. This includes hanging it over the edge of
the cliff. I would definately not want to carry 120 feet of static rope
around with me because that would amlost double the amount of gear. 120
feet of webbing fits nicely if you do that daisy chain thing where it
unfolds with the pull of the ends. It's also much lighter.
From: MadDog
I frequent a crag with rock so soft as to make leading on gear quite risky and
bolting requires prior approval of a city council that is anti-bolt. Thus, I am
quite experienced at setting topropes. In a bad year (not traveling elsewhere
enough) I've been know to set on the order of 100 topropes there. Trees and
chains set in cement are the primary anchors. For this crag, webbing is far
superior. I can take a helmet-sized wad of webbing and set 3 TRs on routes
spaced widely along this 1/4 mile long crag. I couldn't do that with static
line unless I cut it up or brought a really big spool. Not only that, I don't
like static line - heavy, bulky, stiff as wire. Webbing is more user-friendly
and if it gets abraded, I can toss out that piece or cut it down and still use
the remains. If my static line gets a cut in the middle, it will then be
useless for its intended (by me) purpose.
From: Michael Riches
I like the idea of static where weight is not a factor (Static vs webbing
weight). Static pieces can be picked up at most climbing shops for a decent
price, that is the ends of the reels. As I'm a skinflint I always check the
loose ends box and have picked up some decent pieces of both static rope and
webbing. Static will wear better, but webbing is lighter and easier to deal
with, easier to haul and a little more versatile....sure you can make an
emergency harness out of a piece of static line but the one made with
webbing feels so much better.....
If I was taking a bunch of scouts out to top rope, I'd much rather use the
static rope for my anchors because the anchors will take some serious abuse,
these kids will come up with the most incredible ways to punish an anchor
system. But if I was just climbing with my buds and buddettes then I'd have
to stay with the webbing, as it's (for me anyway) a whole lot easier to deal
with.
From: Thor Lancelot Simon
I have an old dynamic rope, that I am considering retiring.
Can I use it as a static rope for setting up anchors?
Don't use dynamic rope to set toprope anchors. If it runs around or
over edges, trees, etc. the continual loading and unloading can cause
the stretch of the dynamic line to saw the line in half over the
obstruction. Oops!
If you *must* do this, you need a length of garden hose or similar to
protect the rope with anywhere it might rub, and you need to use it
religiously.
From: Kaminski
7 mm cordelette are very strong. If the cordelette was set up properly the
advantage of its use is that the anchor it is equalized, redundant, and will not
extend if one piece pulls out. I have used both cordelettes and webbing to set
my top rope anchors - it all depends on the circumstances in which I find
myself. An advantage that webbing has is that if it is drapped over an edge, it
will fray less than a rope or cordelette will.
From: Chill Pill
I would trust my life to 7mm cord any day.
However, I have personally seen 7mm cord wear almost all the way through
while running over an edge. Spectra pre-sewn slings and 1" tubular is MUCH
more wear resistant when it comes to hanging it over a lip.
What should I use to pad a sharp edge? [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
From: Tim Howe
If this is the case, pad the
edge heavily (packs work well in lieu of anything else, as does pieces of
wood, shoes, shirts, news-paper, floor mats, etc. Better to just bring
carpet or ideally a piece of fire-hose) Also double up the sling running
over the edge. If it is not padded sufficiently it WILL get cut, back it
up and check it everytime you go up. As someone else mentioned,
remember SRENE.
From: Kelly Rich
To protect over an edge, use a section of 1" tubular. This can be slid over
another piece of 1" tubular, or over a section of static rope.
From: Stefan Axelsson
Or if the edge is sharp and full of crystals, as is common here, get
a piece of fire hose, your local fire-station would probably give you a
few feet of an old retired one if you ask.
From: Anthony Ingenito
I agree. A piece of old fire hose is the best idea. You can put rope,
webbing, anything through it. (There is plenty of room.) If you slit a
few pieces down the side, you can put them on where ever you need to. A
removeable nylon wire tie will hold it closed.
From: Dave Condit
For the edge, you might want to try a sliding your runner through a piece of
garden hose. I've used this in combination with runners made out of assualt
line & felt they were pretty bomber. I've also seen people use a small piece
of carpet for the edge.
From: Andreas
We use canvas tarps and
purpose built tubular rope pads. The pads wrap around the rope and close
with velcro. For climbing, you could try old T-shirts. Regardless of what
you decide to use as padding, make sure you secure it well. You do not
want to be half way up a climb and suddenly have an old T-shirt land on
you!
From: Dan Rossi
Being mostly a top-roper I carry lots of protection for the edge. You can
slide webbing over the rope. Run the ropes through pieces of fire hose.
Lay down pieces of carpeting over the edge. I've even used the legs from
an old pare of sweat pants.
You also may want to pad the tree where the rope goes around it. Rope
tends to be a bit harder on the tree bark than webbing.
Is it safe to toprope on static rope? [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
From: Ken Cline
It is also my assertion that static ropes put forces on anchor
systems that they might not withstand.
When lead climbing, yes, but not when toproping.
"Static" ropes used in climbing stretch quite a bit. The modulus
(springiness) of dynamic climbing rope is probably around
4000-8000(lb/ft/ft), while static ropes have been measured at about
16000 (BW II) and 20000 (PMI) - a factor of five. Note that worst
case (ff=2) fall forces are proportional to the square root of
modulus, so worst case we have added a factor of sqrt(5). Add to this
the fact that low fall-factor falls depend less on modulus than higher
ff ones, and it is reasonable to expect an increase in top rope fall
force by a factor of two or less for static rope when compared to
dynamic. Expect less of a difference when there is little slack in
the system, and no difference at all for zero slack!
I don't recommend toproping on anchors that may fail under top rope
loads, with either static or dynamic rope. Find a better anchor or
move elsewhere.
I might add that I have TRed a lot with static ropes, and find they
work quite well in practice when used sensibly.
From: David Emrich
Look here:
Blue Water's Technical Manual - Static Ropes
BTW, static ropes have varying amounts of stretch. I use an ordinary, a little bit stretchy
one for top roping (solo, on a fixed line). I wouldn't care to use a super low stretch line like
the Sterling HTP for that application.
From: Brad Brandewie
I believe that top roped climbing with a static rope has it's place. It is
definitely more important not to let any slack enter the system than it is
when using a dynamic rope. However, if done correctly, TRing on a static is
safe in my opinion. NOLS uses static ropes for TR. (I have never been to
NOLS, but when a friend of mine said they do this, I called their Lander
office and confirmed that this is true.)
From: Bernd Nebendahl
If the belayer is trained (so that he leaves no slack) a static rope
may be usefull in some situations. Lets assume you are on a 25m
top-rope climb and after climbing 3-4m you take a fall. Even if the
belayer arrests the rope you would still hit the ground with a dynamic
rope. But of course you should NEVER lead on such a rope for obvious
reasons, as you probably know.
From: Dave Condit
I've used both numerous times and find the static hold up better to the abuses
of toproping (it's cheaper too.) As long as you're belaying properly (no
slack), the static nature of a static rope should not present a problem.
From: Undercling
Let's add that not only are static ropes cheaper, and probably last longer in
toproping (as they are not "working" as much with these small loads) but that
it is much more convenient to use static lines when there is hardly any sag
and stretch while hangdogging and working a route or preparing it in some way
such as pre-protecting etc. The climber does not lose as much ground.
From: Tim Howe
I can't speak for anywhere else but I know that my local gym uses "gym
ropes" which are basically semi-static ropes designed for toproping.
They streach just enough that if your belayer is not paying attention you
won't get whiplash (or worse) but they also don't stretch much. Quite
nice for TRing IMHO.
From: Keith Jewell
Recently, I've been using 11 mm static line to toprope. I haven't
noticed ANY shocking or back-wrenching falls from this rope. The rope
is many years old, routinely gets run over cliff edges while weighted,
and has 'nary a nick in the sheath. A true workhorse of a rope. It is,
however, a pain in the ass to pull an ATC off of it, but I'm convinced
that a beefy static is the way to go for topropes. My $0.02.
From: Karl Baba
The problem with static ropes is that they become a problem the instant
circumstances change. It is easier to jug static lines for instance,
and haul on them, however, I have seen a guy take a 30 foot fall on his
jumars when a lame fixed pin he was jugging on pulled and he took a
factor 2 fall on the previous belay (I know, weird example) He would
probably be dead or messed up if it was a static line.
But what if the lead line gets cut (in a wall situation), or the top
rope gets jammed in a crack and the second has to climb (like leading)
up to it to free it, or leading becomes mandatory because of some
emergency or stuck rope or whatever.
Static ropes are nice and they have their place. I just want to remind
folks that they also create an opportunity to get wanked when you
otherwise wouldn't.
How do I set up a toprope so that it's equalized correctly? [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
From: David Fasulo
I think the best way to set-up a top rope is to use a length of static
rope (7/16). Suppose you have two trees as anchors. Tie one end of the
rope to a tree with a double bowline. Run the rope over the edge of the
cliff (approx. 1 foot) and tie a figure 8 on a bite. Next, tie another
figure 8 on a bite next to the first figure 8. Clip both figure 8 loops
with a couple locking carabiners and hang your top rope. Take the
remaining rope and tie it to the second tree using a tensionless hitch
(wrap the rope around the tree a few times, tie a figure 8 on a bite,
clip the figure 8 loop to the rope using a locking biner). If you
weight the rope, with your top-rope, and then tie the tensionless hitch
it is easy to equalize the two figure 8 knots that are clipped to the
top-rop carabiners.
From: mphal
The other idea
I had, instead of a bowline or a figure 8, was to wrap one end of the
static rope around a tree half a dozen times and create enough
friction so the rope won't slip, and secure it with a biner clipped
into a figure 8 bight at the end of the rope and back around the rope
like a quasi-girth hitch.
A tensionless system like you just described is an excellant top-rope
anchor... Because there are no loaded knots in the system, the rope
retains 100% of its streangth... I ust this system all the time to set
top rope anchors for institutional use, and to set my own anchors for
top-rope solos....
One suggestion is to use a re-threaded fig. 8 instead of a locking
biner to tie off the tensionless system... Last year, I set up a top
rope anchor at a nice 5.12 (a good grade above my ability level at the
time) and top rope soloed up it... I took three falls on my way up, (I
use a petzl rescuescender girth hitched to my harness on a 2' sling to
solo, this eliminates any worry of cross-loading a biner, and makes the
rescuescender self-feed much better, the downside is that any fall is
for real... When you fall, you're airborn for four feet before you get
caught...) So after three four foot falls, I reach the top, only to
discover, to my horror, that some $%#@$ has stolen the locking biners
out of my anchor... I took three four foot falls about 65' off the deck
onto a 10mm static rope wrapped around a tree six times... I almost got
sick right there... Since then, I have eliminated any non-loaded biners
from my anchors at top-rope sites...
From: Michael Riches
One of the best ways to do webbing on trees and things that are similar is
called the wrap three tie two. This requires a bit more webbing but it is
not only much stronger, it also protects the tree better and does not load
the knot quite as much, making it a little easier to untie.
Wrap your webbing around the tree three times tie a water knot, backing up
the tails and then grab two of the strands and pull the slack out. Use these
to connect your biner to. If the webbing is long enough take the two strands
and do a quick overhand to help equalize it. In order to keep your angles
right you will need about two feet or more left out away from the tree with
your two strands that you will be tying into...try this a couple of times
and you'll be surprised at how fast you can get when setting it up.
From: Cam Sanders
Adjusting the length of 1" tubular webbing is easy on the anchor-side: just
pull the strand to the length you want (perhaps where you feel the right
tension, or to where the anchor is positioned where you want it, etc.) going
past the anchor biner you plan to clip (held approximately in its final
position) by about four inches (or the far-side of an D-biner), and this
marks the fold point for tying your overhand knot to clip to the biner
(assuming you don't include additional twists, etc). You'll perfect the
process in about three tries.
The problem I've had is that
equalizing this takes time because I end up having to keep re-doing
the water knot until the load is equal.
Yeah, the problem is the water knot to join to pieces of webbing. Those are
a pain to work with to get the length right. I always rig things so that I
connect one end of the webbing (or the middle of a long strand using a
figure eight) to the rope-side biners, and then I use an overhand knot
(bite) on the end that will be clipped into an anchor biner. The length
adjustment is then made at the anchor biner as I described yesterday:
Length adjustment Scenario 1 -- To a biner:
Adjusting the length of 1" tubular webbing is easy on the anchor-side: just
pull the strand to the length you want (perhaps where you feel the right
tension, or to where the anchor is positioned where you want it, etc.) going
past the anchor biner you plan to clip (held approximately in its final
position) by about four inches (or the far-side of an D-biner), and this
marks the fold point for tying your overhand knot to clip to the biner
(assuming you don't include extraneous twists, etc). You'll perfect the
process in about three tries.
Length adjustment Scenario 2 -- The girth hitch:
When girth hitching a rock or a tree, I lay the webbing out in the
approximate destination position (with the rope-side overhand knot in
place -- three to four inch knot tail -- ) and wrap the webbing around the
anchor object and back to the webbing, adding perhaps six to eight inches to
dictate the fold point to create my overhand knot. Then, I pull the
rope-side tail up and thread it through the knot, and lay it back down until
the rope is connected. Then after you have the rest of your anchor in
approximately the correct setup, drop the rope. Now, to adjust the length on
the girth hitch, simply rotate it in the direction that tightens it. (If you
are worried about compression of a tree, you can always use two overhand
knots and a biner instead of a girth-hitch, in which case you adjust the
length as described in scenario 1. Let the size & health of the tree dictate
your decision here.)
From: Mike Farris
I have to ask... How the hec do you tension this system?
(preface-I tie small loops in the ends of the webbing, using an overhang on a
bight)
Depends on the anchors used, but:
1) set first anchor, tie sling to proper length, attach biners.
2) clip loops in ends of two other webbing strands into biners.
3) attach rope and toss it down. Rope/Biners are over the edge and that part is
ready to go.
4. Now set the other two anchors and attach the slings to the new anchors.
5. The tensioning is simple if you standardize the way in which you tie the
overhand loops in the end of the webbing. Since the rope is down, just pull the
free end of the sling as tight as necessary, throw an overhand loop in, and clip
into the anchor biner. For my loops, adding about 1/2 a carabiner length to the
predicted length of the sling is about right. YMMV.
By dropping the rope early in the process you weight the system and it's easier
to tension properly. Adjusting tension is easier and safer at the anchors,
rather than the rope/carabiner junction. This also avoids the tedium of
adjusting knots so that circular slings are the right length.
If I use trees, the easiest way to tension is to girth hitch the tree, then run
the hitch around the tree a ways. Get the tension close at the biner/rope end,
throw down the rope, then move the web around the tree to do the final tension.
Of course there are always exceptions.
From: Stu Hammet
About the girth hitch. Years ago a very experienced guide showed me the bit
about adjusting the length of a girth-hitched sling by sliding the hitch
back around the tree. No argument that this may be a little hard on the
webbing, but for toproping loads or even as part of a belay anchor, I
suspect that it's within the range of acceptable practices, as long as
everything else is solid, equalized, redundant, etc. etc. The group may
crucify me for this, but these materials are incredibly strong, and as long
as we're not talking about leader falls, they aren't going to break. (As
long as they don't get cut, hence Scott's advice about padding edges.)
From: Rex Pieper
You might want to make a "Woodson Setup" named after the San Diego
Bouldering area Mount Woodson. Essentially you create 15 foot long
daisy chains out of a length of 40' - 45' webbing. After you've tied it
into a loop using the water knot to join the ends, tie overhand knots
in the webbing every 6 inches or so to form "pockets" that you can clip
a locking biner to at the required lengths.
Using this setup you can quickly rig a fairly well equalized TR that's
easily adjustable.
From: Wayne Busch
Tie overhand knots in a long loop of webbing, 6' to 1 foot between knots. You
can secure it by wrapping it around a tree and passing it through one of the
loops girth hitch style, or use a carabiner to link it to another loop.
Dr Ascii isn't here, but I'll give it my best: x's are the overhand knots in
the long sling. The single knot used to make the sling from a long piece of
webbing does not appear here. You can see there are two pieces of webbing
between each knot.
One factor of a good anchor is redundancy. Whenever a sling runs over a sharp
edge, tying a knot in the sling above and below the edge allows redundancy. If
one piece of the webbing is damaged or cut, the other is there to back it up.
Top rope slings can sometimes be exposed to edges that are difficult to pad.
This method allows a little more safety.
How do I toprope a route that is longer than half a rope length? [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
From: Nathan Sweet
I use a double fishermans. Good finger exercise untying it when you are done
to!
One thing to keep in mind, 3-400 feet of dynamic rope stretches ALOT if the
climber falls. And the fall can feel odd to catch, like a slight tug then
*bam*--- alot of force(spring-like). I was pulled off my feet the first time I
caught a good double rope TR fall.
From: Bob Harrington
Another option that is easy to untie and very secure is to use
a double figure-eight bend. Tie a figure-eight knot in each
rope, then take the ends and follow through the knot in the
other rope:
so you end up with two figure-eight bends. It's much easier
to untie than a single figure-eight bend or double fisherman's,
and it works with ropes of different diameters.
It's disadvantages are that it uses a relatively lot of rope and
has two knots to potentially get hung up, but it's a nice knot
for certain situations.
From: Carol Haynes
Reef knot (is that a square knot ?) with double fisherman's
As strong and secure as a double fishermen's. Only slightly more bulky
(lengthwise only) and easy to undo after use.
From: Tom Moyer
In a double-fisherman's knot, the tension in the rope pulls the two
grapevines together and locks them. In the backed-up square-knot, the
tension in the rope pulls the square-knot tight, but the grapevines
don't get tightened. If they scrape on the rock and get untied (which
can't happen in the double-fisherman's), all you have left is the
square-knot. Remember that a guy cratered last year in Southern Utah
when his square-knot untied. (No, it wasn't backed up.)
The grapevine is a pretty reliable safety, but not reliable enough for
me to bet my life on. I'll take the follow-through figure-eight or the
DFK, thanks. I don't mind working a bit harder to untie them.
From: Fern
If you want to protect the knot from abrading or getting hung up
take two 600mL soft drink bottles and slice the bottoms off. Then
thread each rope in through the mouth of a bottle, tie, dress and
tighten your knot and slide the bottles together nesting them
around the knot. A wrap of duct tape will keep the package
together. It's still important to inspect the knot every so often
during the day.
From: Lord Slime
Use two belay devices side-by-side on the belayer's harness. If
your brake hand is the right one, thread the right-hand device first.
When the knot gets to the device, tie a figure8 in the free end, freeing
your hands. When the climber gets 3' higher, thread the second
device and continue as usual.
From: Jonathan Freedner
No need to pass the knot at all. Start with the knot right up against
your toprope anchor on the belayer's side, and have the climber tie in
not to the end of the rope, but to the point where the rope reaches the
ground. The climber will reach the toprope anchor at the same time the
knot reaches the belay device.
From: Dylan Ransom
After going through the annoying hassle of passing a toprope knot just
the other day, I will now clip in to the middle of the rope. It's
safer, easier, and faster. Use a backup if you like.
From: Clint Cummins
I usually belay with a Munter hitch on a big "pearbiner", and the
knot can be passed through this without much trouble. It does require
a little slack in the hitch, so if the person fell at that point, one
of my fingers might get sucked into the knot.... So it's pretty safe
for the climber, and perhaps risky to the belayer!
From: Grant
If you can't TR it with one rope, you probably shouldn't be
TRing it at all.
From: Greg Sadowy
If you *must* toprope a long pitch, why not top-belay? That way
your freaked-out newbie friend will only drop 3 feet on stretch instead
of 6. Everyone seems to think that the slingshot top-rope is the olny
way to go. Sure it's comfy (perhaps a bit too comfy), but it's not the
best way to do it for many longer pitches.
How do I carry and store large lengths of webbing? [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
From: Donovan White
I make an arm coil out of each piece of webbing - run loops from my palm
down and around my elbow.
When I've got about four feet left, I start a tight wrap around the coil,
making an 8 out of the coil. When I start the wrap, I run the free end
through the bottom of that last half-loop, and wrap up the coil toward the
top.
After a couple of wraps, I run a bight through the top half of the 8, run
the free end over the top and through the bight, and snug tight, leaving
about a foot of run free.
With two or three coils of webbing done like this, I tie the free ends
together with a figure eight or an overhand knot, and clip the whole thing
to the back of my pack.
For inside storage, I dump them into a stuff sack or hang them from pegs or
a stair banister.
From: Jeffrey
For longer pieces, I fold in half, then fold in half again. I now have 4
thicknesses. I take the end without the tails, and tie an overhand knot.
This is much faster than many of the other techniques you will hear of. If
you want, you can then threat several of these through a piece of cord to
keep them all together. For some Boy Scout activities I have packed dozens
of lengths of webbing this way.
From: Kevin Fons
I just put all my webbing into a stuff sack. Fast and easy.
If it gets wet I pull it out for a couple days to dry and then back in the sack.
It is just for toproping anyway.
See also:
Daisy Chain on VirtualLinks.com
How can I get hurt while top-roping? (avoiding common errors) [back
to top] [FAQ contents]
Note: This isn't a complete list of ways to get hurt while top-roping; it's just a sampling.
From: Alex Black
Just remember: always have redundancy, always equalize, always reverse &
oppose gates, test your knots, and test the directionality of all your TR
anchors (and your lead anchors if you can)
Also, know how to escape a belay if you intend to climb anywhere you and
your partner are alone (backcountry - or even in the valley if you're on a
multipitch. Many people do not have this skill, and it requires maintenance.
Insufficient Redundancy
From: Bob Collins
The issue here is not one of which type of material or which knot to use, but one of redundancy. A "bombproof" anchor is fundamental to safe climbing, and redundancy is fundamental to a "bombproof" anchor. This applies to all areas of climbing, whether it be alpine, big wall, or sport climbing.
When toproping, with everyone standing around together at the base of a climb, it is easy to become complacent. Since the anchor for a toprope is usually out of sight and unattended, it would seem prudent to construct this anchor in such a manner as to leave NO DOUBT as to its integrity. Again, this is best accomplished by redundant attachments to the climbing rope. If the anchor cannot be inspected by those climbing on it, ask the person who set it up how it is rigged. If you don't like what you see or hear, change it! Many people climb with beginners, and they rely on us "experts" to keep them alive.
From: Chris LeDoux
In this case, it was a self-equalizing sling, attached to locking biners
at the anchors and 2 on the rope, with a twist in the webbing. This is a
common type of anchor used for routes that wander, so that weight will
always be distributed across both anchors. Also very commonly taught for
use as belay anchors on multi-pitch routes. However, there is no
redundancy for the sling, only for the anchors. You can't use 2 slings
because they will saw against each other. And even on multi-pitch, you
should have another sling, a directional.
The solution (if you're using this type of system with 2 bolts): attach
another, longer sling to one of the bolts (or to a piece outside of the
system if possible) with a locking biner attached to the rope. This
additional sling should be longer than the others so that it is hanging
loosely on the rope. If the main sling fails, this is your backup sling
and could save your life. Never trust your life to a single piece of
webbing.
Another solution (for use with 2 bolts at the crags): attach 2 locking
quickdraws to the bolts and thread the rope through. If one quickdraw
fails, you have the other. This is very common and it's fast to setup. If
you must use a self-equalizing, please back it up as described above.
Finally, there is no confirmation as to whether the knot came untied or
if it was cut on the rock. The lesson here is that all anchor systems
should have redundancy throughout (for both biners and slings). A quick
glance around your local crag will show that this is definitely not
always the case and it's most surprising that this doesn't happen more.
Always check and double-check the anchor and slings before you're lowered
or rap off a route and make sure that it's backed up, especially if you
don't know the person that you're climbing with very well. Never hesitate
to question someone else's anchor system. That's your right if you're
climbing on it. I toproped a few climbs with some people I met down in
Tuolumne Meadows last September. I questioned the anchors, adjusted them
so I felt confident climbing on them, and then did some fun climbs. If
your partner has a problem with you questioning the system, maybe you
should find a different partner. It's only your life. This advice is most
important for beginners who have a tendency to trust those who've been
climbing for awhile. Mistakes in judgment can happen at any time in your
climbing and taking a look at the anchor is also your responsibility.
From: Irishman
You don't have enough slings to tie into both
Get more gear, or climb somewhere else, or don't climb at all. There will
never be justification for top roping on a non-redundant anchor. I like
MD's phrase. "No top rope route is worth dying for."
From: Mike Yukish
My theory is if the tree is big enough that if I were to pull it out it would
kill me when it fell on me, it's big enough to use by itself.
A single tree is commonly used as an anchor point in top roping. Needless
to say, that tree had best be strong enough to hang a truck on. The trick
is to evaluate how firmly the tree is rooted. Sometimes it's hard or
impossible to know. (Short of hanging a truck on it)
Once you decide to use a single tree, standard procedure is to use redundant
gear to create your anchor. One way to do this with a single rope is to tie
two eights in the middle with about 6 " of rope between. Clip a locker into
each loop. The idea is to use each half as though it were an individual
rope. Attach both ends to the "bomb proof" tree and you'll have a safe
redundant anchor. Assuming the tree really is "bomb proof"
From: Ken Cline
Not too long ago, a local group that is ULTRA conservative on safety
issues said that a single tree at least 5 inches (13 cm) in
diameter, with a single rope is OK.
Then I guess I'm ULTRA, ULTRA conservative. Unless we're talking
about a certifiably HUGE tree, I'll always go for a backup if
conveniently available when setting up a top rope anchor. When I use
one tree, I tie two separate lines to it. Clearly less anchor would
hold most of the time, but you'll have to make that decision for
yourself.
From: Richard Ferguson
I figure the real risk is not in uprooting trees, but in setup errors,
ordinary human error when assembling the anchor system. Keep it simple,
and consider a backup sling and caribiner. The 40 foot of webbing
mentioned by another poster is a cheap investment, and allows you to
choose your tree or trees, rather than being forced to use a funky tree
or one in a less than ideal location.
From: John Robinson
The Bottom line (in my opinion) is never trust one piece of gear unless
you have to such as a belay biner and a belay device but on a top rope
anchor for the rope, I always use 2 biners (locking or non) cause I can.
From: Philip bgndmts
A compromise between safety and practicality on a top rope is dumb. Be
safe, that is practical.
Running rope through webbing without a biner
From: JWover
I rescued an 18 year old kid at the Red River Gorge who fell 45 feet
and crushed both ankles and a severe concusion. His partner had rapped off a
sport climb that had a single piece of webbing slung between two Metoluos
Mega-Hangers at the anchor. He had looped his rope not through the rappel
ring but over the sling and rapped. Then his partner decided he wanted to do
the climb on top rope, so he climbs the same setup, gets to the top with out
incident and begins to lower off. As the climb got steep and more weight was
placed on the ancor, the rope began to cut through webbing and in less than 10
feet (indicated by the fine black burnt line on the rope) the sling got sawed
in half. That kid nearly died and his partner would have been responsible.
Do yourself a favor and perform this test take
an old rope and several feet of sling, then with one person holding the rope
and the other the sling cross them in the middle and start to saw with the
rope back and forth as hard as you can against the sling till it breaks. I
have seen this done in less than 30 seconds.
From: Alan Lindsey
Check out: [article no longer available online]
In short, Lady meets guy who claims to have been climbing for 12 years.
He invites her to go climbing with him. Something goes wrong with the
TR (details are sketchy, but it looks like the rope was run directly
through the webbing). She falls, massive injuries and gets word that
this dude's maybe not as swift as he let on .
From: James Robertson
the best one i read was in the accidents book
about some climbers running the rope through some
webbing on toprope then lowering the climber after
the 10+ climb. it didn't heat through until the
third climber!
Not tying in correctly
From: Dave Buchanan
This morning I finally checked my voice-mail and got a distraught
message from my ex-girlfriend (we're still very good friends)
about a horrible accident at the gym Tues in which she was involved.
She was belaying her boyfriend, (who I happen to approve of,
and in fact rather like) and when he got to the top of the 35 foot
wall, leaned back to get lowered off.
He shot down at full velocity; not connected to the rope.
Apparently he had not followed through his figure-8.
(He has been climbing for many years)
He landed on the 1' high bench which separates the shredded-rubber floor
from the carpeted floor, which sits about 10 feet away.
He shattered one ankle, and his other leg sustained a double tib/fib
compound fracture. As the bench exploded, a piece of wood severely
lacerated his forehead, and there was blood everywhere.
"Luckily" this was at a time when the gym was relatively empty.
The paramedics said had it not been for the bench absorbing much of the
impact, he could have easily broken his back, or worse.
This is basically the same type accident which happened to Lynn Hill
a few years ago, (60 footer) and very recently at a crag in the
Sierra foothills.
From: Kelly Rich
However, the real reason I'm chiming in here is to say
that I used to think "Aw geesh" whenever my partner asked
to see my knot and harness. What a silly thing. Normally, it
happens when I'm at the gym and am climbing with someone
who just got out of the Basic Safety class. I'd go "Here" in
a smart-assed way, showing my knot and harness.
Well that's not so any more, and I take the question as
though the person were saying that they loved and cared
for me. I have, through others, learned my leason. But I'll
admit, I don't check my partner's harness often enough.
Especially in the gym where you tie and untie so often.
Checking knots every time can be worst than your mother
telling you to go brush your teeth every single night. But in the
end, she's really just saying that she loves and cares for you.
It's not so silly after all.
From: Jay Tanzman
Climbing with a half-tied knot is often the result of getting distracted while
tying in. You start tying the knot, somebody asks you a question, you answer,
and start climbing -- with half a knot. Once I start to tie in, I make it a
point yo avoid interruptions until I have finished the knot. If someone asks
me a question, I don't answer until I'm completely tied in. If I see a
beginner allow himself to be interrupted while tying in, I point out the
danger to him. The same caution applies to putting on your harness.
Belaying from above without redirection
From: John Tupper
On May 26th, I was climbing with my partner near Lake Massibesic in Southern
NH. After moving the top rope, my partner lowered me down to the bottom of
the cliff using a belay device. She was unable to control my speed and I
hit the deck 40 feet below hard.
The setup: My partner was tied in to the top rope anchors, and was sitting
at the top of the cliff facing down. I was tied into the rope, which went
directly to her belay device which was setup correctly.
Now for the mistake! The brake rope ran from the belay device stright down
the cliff to a pile of slack at the bottom of the cliff.
Once I started moving down the cliff, my partner had to life 40 feet of rope
faster than it was already traveling due to my descent in order to apply the
brake.
From: DRansom
I'm glad you mentioned this. (I assume you mean that both climbers are at the
top, with one being lowered) I wish I would have known about this painful
physics lesson before I tried lowering my father (who was almost double my
weight at the time) from the top of a 100 ft. route. I was barely able to hold
on to the rope, and he damn near "cleft me in twain". No accident in this
case, but it could have easily been a disaster.
From: Clint Cummins
Actually, many belay devices do not generate sufficient friction to
lower a person directly from the top position. Here are some better
ideas:
1. Use a Munter hitch -- it has enough friction.
2. Only lower if you are belaying from the bottom of the crag, with
the rop running through some biners at the top anchor (these biners
are a useful additional source of friction). If you attempt to
lower from the top position, even if the rope is at the top of
the crag, you can't change your hip position to get the free end
behind you -- you have to do everything with your one arm.
2. Don't lower -- rappel separately. It's easier on the rope.
If you only have one rap device, either pass the rap device up on the
rope, or lower the second person from the bottom position.
3. Walk around the back side of the crag, if feasible. At a local toproping
area here, we have a firm rule against lowering off -- always untie and
walk off the backside, if you make it up the route. It's just one less
chance for the belayer or gear to fail
From: Mkword
One solution is to clip the rope through a piece
just above the belay. This will help maintain control
for the belayer as it adds some friction and it helps
the belayer use the belay device as intended.
Rope stretch
From: Brad Brandewie
I was in Ouray TRing ice a couple weekends ago. When I was low on a pitch
(being belayed from the top) I fell approximately 6-10 feet from rope
stretch. That seemed like too much as I watched the ground or ledge get
closer. I was on a 10.2 Beal Flyer rope with a static elongation of 7.7%
under an 80 kg load. That translates to almost 8 feet if you are a half
rope length below when you fall. I was wishing for a static.
From: Emil Briggs
There was an accident last year in North Carolina where
someone suffered a broken foot as a result of toprope
stretch.
From: John Davis
I myself nearly decked from 6m,
though that was my own stupidity (top-roping a 20m route on a single 9mm -
duh!!!). A friend got herself a nice concussion falling off a low crux whist
seconding a 30m route on doubles - she basically bungeed onto the deck,
whacking her head on the way.
it's real simple - skinny ropes stretch a lot more than thick ropes. Good
when you're trying to keep forces down on dodgy gear, but can mean the
second has to have the same 'don't fall' attitude as leading.
Rockfall
From: E Cox
Has anyone heard about the condition of the guide from Seneca Rocks
climbing school who got nailed by a rockfall last Friday (April 9)? From
what I understand, he and 2 other guides had a group of 11 Boy Scouts in
the area of Luncheon Ledge. One of the scouts on toprope was pulling on
a ledge and a sofa-size section broke off and shattered into chunks,
which nailed another of the scouts and the guide who was belaying the
climber (who was fine, btw--the injured guide held on).
From: Simon Isbister
A group was tr.ing Corner Route,
a 5.3 or .4 (which had actually been my first lead ever). Many of them
were first timmers, but they had experienced belayers. About 25 ft up,
the climber stood on a block (which he had just been pulling up on), and
it tumbled loose (it was about the size of a mini fridge). For those of
you who know the place, the belayer was laid back on that flat slab,
about 15 ft back from the cliff. For those who don't know the place,
That was where the rock was headed. I suppose the weight of the falling
climber aided the belayer to his feet, but he was out of there in ZERO
time- for one reason only: he had been aware, and closely watching his
climber, even though they were "only" tr.ing an easy route. He avoided
having a rock for a torso, only by watching.
Pendulum (failure to directionalize)
From: JAG
This 40+ yr old guy was climbing a 5.3 on TR. He was wearing sneakers.
It was his 1st time. The problem was that the anchor was 30feet to his
right. The climb he was doing was nearly twice as high as the route his
rope was on!!! He got about eye level with anchor (but 30ft to it's
left). Now, keep in mind kids, this was a highly featured wall. A large
butress stuck out between him and the anchor. I gasped at the sight and
commented to his clueless belayer. He told his "friend" to down cimb.
The poor guy struggled 'cause having been caught up in the excitement of
climbing he did'nt know gravity of the situation. Well, he fell. Like
fucking Peter Pan he did a slow-motion spiraling fall spread-eagle like,
his body parallel to the ground. We all screamed at the eminant death,
for we all were sure we were going to witness something truley horrible.
As he spun his head missed the butress by inches, in fact i think his
hair grazed it. It would've been skull shattering. He did bounce off
some rock on the up-swing of his great pendelum swing.
He looked scared as hell and almost started to cry.
Lowering the climber off the end of the rope
From: MB
3) while lowering the climber on a route longer than twice the length of the
rope, the belayer lets the end of the rope slip through the belay device.
My situation was #3, but it was made worse by the fact that the route started
about 30 feet off the deck (causing the climber to fall even further).
From: David Henderson
The scary thing is that the rangers said there were another *six* accidents,
presumably non-fatal, at the City of Rocks in which the rope-end went through
the brake.
From: John Tupper
P.S. I was "only top roping" when I got dropped about 40 feet. I'm
damn lucky I didn't break more than I did, including my skull. I
wasn't wearing my helmit - I will next be next time.
From: Steve Gray
Is there any reason, other than laziness, why
a) the belayer should not tie in as well, or
b) you shouldn't tie a belay-plate-jamming knot in the end ?
See also:
How do I belay safely with a Gri-Gri? / How can a Gri-Gri fail? on Tradgirl
Toproping: Page 1 2
Most of the information in this FAQ was originally posted on rec.climbing. If you would prefer to have something attributed to you removed from this FAQ, please contact us.
Belay device + locking biner to keep it on
2 or 3 locking biners for the toprope anchor & other stuff
rope (opinions differ on brand, size, etc. - that's a whole other debate)
1" tubular webbing or static rope - this is for the toprope anchor. get at
least 30 feet.
What should I buy for a beginner's rack? on Tradgirl
Sterling's SuperStatic Ropes
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