When, where, and how should I pass a slower party? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Nate, 4/11/2002

1) Hang out at the base and hold your position in the queue until the next party up is so rediculously far ahead that you'll never have to pass them. Bring a book, thermarest or gameboy - whatever suites you. Better napping on the ground than waiting for your balls to go numb hanging around at some belay. I usually show up so late when employing this tactic that there is rarely anyone behind me. This is exactly what I would do for CC. Show up at 10 to 11 or so and plan to be climbing by perhaps 2 or so. Back to the car before dark. If you thought you were a hot-shot but ended up climbing at night, then you deserved the fate.

2) Pick a different route. Life's short.

3) If you must - long route, short day - ask nicely. This works 99% of the time. Make sure you've assesed the situation such that it's actually worth passing them. Wanting to pass on a 3 pitch route, for example, will just demonstrate to everyone involved that your ego is big, and that you think your time is more important than everyone else's - especially those who got out of bed before you. Most often, I have found, it nicely shows everyone the inexperience, impatience and lack of planning that landed you in the situation in the first place.

If they do say no - and if the route is long and you're simuling terrain that others are sewing up - then stomp on their ass. I do this about 1% of the time, and I've done it all - clip their gear, do a new variation off to the side, simul right through them, set a belay over theirs, yada, yada. If you have to ask... Just make sure you're climbing that much stronger that day or you'll make a complete fool of yourself when you botch the pass. Even with people I've gotten aggressive with, they all seem to calm down after they figure out I'm not holding them up at all - although in 15 years this year, there was only once that my partner had to start yelling at me to keep me from taking a leak on a party below that we had just passed. These clowns were screaming at us for at least an hour. I think I could still hear them screaming while on the descent.

From: Dingus Milktoast, 4/11/2002

You have no right to expect to be able to get up late and pass people who worked hard to get there first. I mean no disrespect, but I would not let you pass. Get your ass out of bed early if you want to go fast!

The ettitquete is, "May I pass?" and then following the wishes of those who paid the dues to get there first.

Or you could be a dickhead and just climb over everyone, then rap back down on them, dropping ropes on their heads and what not...

I'd go with staying in line or getting up really early. If you don't have to rap the line I believe there are more opportunities for aggressive passes (lord knows I've done that too).

Now if it's a cluster fuck party above you and another above that... go climb something else.

From: Brutus of Wyde, 4/11/2002

If you pass, be courteous. Do NOT hound the other parties' heels (with your faster leader leading so you can dog them) then, after you pass, have the slower leader take over. That SUCKS.

Remember that the party you pass may be the ones freeing your stuck rap rope on the last rap to the ground, after dark.

From: Nathan Sweet, 4/11/2002

just an admonition from someone who has (once) yielded:

If you are going to go through the trouble of asking someone to pass, and they grant it, for God's sake be faster than they are. Like Potter fast. And dont ask the person you passed for beta 1/2 way up a pitch you said you "blazed up a few months ago". Bad form that.

The Florine and Wright book has a whole chapter on passing etiquite. Tips for more Efficient Climbing is the title. (editor's note: actually the title is "Climb On! : Skills for More Efficient Climbing") Great stuff, even for those of us who are half fast.

From: Jose, 4/11/2002

YOU DON'T PASS!! I guess I mean that unless you've got permission to pass a party on a route and they are willing to let you pass at a belay station, it is not only unsafe to pass, but in bad style. A local guide once wanted our climbing community to define circumstances under which a party could feel justified to pass another party on a route. I personally do not feel justified passing a party on a route without their consent unless it becomes hazardous for me not to do so.

My partner and I had to wait for an hour once at the belay beneath the fifth pitch on Levitation 29 because the party ahead of us was having a hard time working out the moves. We knew we were climbing beneath another party and we accepted what that potentionally could mean. We had to wait.

Another time, I was climbing with my girlfriend and a party asked us if they could pass us at the next belay. We agreed, no sweat, just sat back and enjoyed that day.

Another time, in the Needles, I was climbing the last pitch of Airy Interlude and instead of waiting for the party on Igor Unchained to finish their last pitch (joins Airy Interlude), I led up behind the leader of that party to the belay. What a freakin stupid thing that was. I kept thinking that the guy above me looked tired and wondered if his gear was good, and if his rope would get caught with mine if he fell, and if he would fall on top of me. That sucked! Won't do that again. Bad style.

Lastly, my girlfriend and I were climbing Cathedral Peak in Tuolomne Meadows on a July 4th weekend and the peak looked like an ant hill. There were so many parties on the route that it seemed impossible to make any good time on the route. Everyone was choosing a different start at the base and heading as quickly as possible to the 5.7 chimney pitch towards the top of the climb where everyone would bottleneck. Luckily, other route options exsited to the left of the chimney and we passed parties without getting on top of them or crossing gear and ropes. Sometimes, alternative route options are not available or safe. The last thing you want is to go off route to pass and then get stuck in an awkward situation, placing scarry gear, and wandering all overt the place.

From: Lenmus, 4/16/2002

But what happens if they ask and you say no? There are times when you would want to say no. Some people think that just because they cranked the easy slabs fast and got to you quick that they are going to be faster on the steep, harder parts. Usually they are not. I've had that experience before. If I don't think they'll be faster then I'm not going to let them clip my gear and pass without a fight (at least verbal). If someone refuses to let you through with good will, then I think courtesy demands that you either tweak out a parallel route with your own gear, or just wait your turn. But I think that parallel passing on your own gear is even questionable. Big walls are a different situation, I'll admit. But people need to be cooperative.

From: Mike Garrison, 4/21/1999

In climbing this is not just a matter of courtesy, it's an issue of safety. And I'd argue that by long tradition no climber has the right to unilaterally take any actions that affect the safety of another climber.

If the route is too popular and novices or slow climbers have it jugged up, well tough! If they feel comfortable with letting you pass, it's a windfall for you. Otherwise, go somewhere less popular.

From: Bob Harrington, 9/5/1998

Just as it is polite and expected that a slower party will allow a faster party to pass, faster parties should know that there are times and places where it's inappropriate to pass. It could be inappropriate because it's dangerous to pass, could be that the route (e.g. Royal Arches) is such a beginner trade route that they should have known it would be a zoo, or it could be that they aren't enough faster that they can't pass without slowing down the slower party which hardly seems fair (e.g. Inez's Higher Rock story).

Obviously, the other solution to the problem is to favor unpopular routes. It's a better solution than most people seem to realize.

From: Kai Larson, 10/17/1995

On a crag climb of only a couple of pitches, there really seems to be little justification for crowding the party ahead of you or trying to leap-frog ahead of them. Let the slower party have the enjoyment of climbing at their own pace without someone breathing down their neck. If you're really that much faster and can't stand to wait, go find a harder climb that will be clear of slow moving riff raff.

This is not to say that you should never ask to climb through. If the party ahead is clearly flailing and taking forever, they may welcome the excuse to rest a little and watch someone else do the moves while you climb through. By the same token, if you are flailing repeatedly on a pitch while a party waits patiently below you, why not offer to let them climb through while you shake out and reload? A little patience, common courtesy, and respect for one another's space goes a long way.

In a high alpine setting, however, there is a better argument for letting the faster party lead through, provided that this can be done safely and without unduly delaying the slower party. Speed is safety in the mountains, and people should be more willing to offer to let another party pass them, and more willing to ask to be allowed to pass

From: Jesse, 4/12/2002

I climbed CC in November. My partner and I rode our bikes in, hoping to be first. Alas, we arrived at 6AM to be greeted by another party that had spent the night. Needless to say I was bitter, especially when we ended up waiting half an hour for them to get off the ground (we were racked-up, ready to go).

They were slow. We were the only two parties to make it to the top that day - the two below us had to bail as it was getting dark (November and all). But while waiting at each belay, we were rewarded with hours of stimulating conversation, and our rap epic (stuck ropes, in the dark . . . twice) was a shared one. One of the climbers was the Artistic Director for Cirque du Soleil, and he graciously invited us to see one of his shows for free - 80$ tickets.

I wanted to pass, but my partner's greater patience prevailed, and in the end, we made some new friends. The party below us was bitter and rude the whole time, despite the fact that the situation was out of our control, and they gained nothing from the day.

I'm sure there's a lesson here somewhere. . .

From: Clint Cummins, 4/15/1999

Often there is a way to do a parallel section to pass without coming in contact with the slower party. For example, many years back I went to do Mescalito, but there were people fixed on the first 4 pitches. So we did the Hockey Night start instead, and beat them to the intersection point. We also pulled away from them above that, doing about one more pitch per day than they were getting.

Another way to pass is to find alternative belay points along the same pitch.

From: Jim Robertson, 10/18/1995

when overtaking another party i usually find that if they are slow climbers they are usually slow rerackers also. and here are some thoughts on the subject.

1. know that your partner can keep up with you. nothing makes you look more like a fool than passing someone then making them wait while your partner slows everything down.

2. plan ahead and use the least amount of gear that you will need on the next pitch. this way you will be ready faster to take off ahead.

3. arrive at the belay just after the follower. be calm and efficient. if you can keep them at there slow pace while your hauling theres more of a chance of a clean pass. set up your belay fast and out of the way of the other party. hopefully your partner can run up the pitch. i sometimes see if i can slow them down with friendly questions theyll usually stop to answer you. it would make sense that you would want to have two pitches in a row that the two of you can run up.

4. this is the moment of decision. if you are ready look over at the other party. are they still reracking? if you caught them fast ill bet a dollar to a donut that they still are. ask them if you can pass and that you will be out of there way in no time (but you should be sure that you can be). if they say no i might go anyway, thought being he who hesitates is lost.

if the leader is starting off it may be a good idea to wait. use the time to butter up the follower. things like offering beta,asking where there from,or commenting on how refreshing it is to see such safe climbers.

if thier cool theyll proubly let you go by, if thier dicks think about finding a short cut and cut them off at the next belay.

as far as single pitch climbs go find another,wait in the que,or pop a brew and take in the show!

basically, if you go to a place thats crowded theres usually a reason. ie popes crack,joshua tree. a internationally known climbing area, in the height of the season, 5.9 classic moderate,100 yards from the road on a saturday. get real,walk up knowing its proubly going to be crowded, dont expect a wilderness expeirance!

From: Brett Sawyer, 11/2/1995

Communicate with them, offer help, suggestions, etc. Let them know that you and your team are climbing much faster and if they took a 30 minute break and let you get past, you would be out of their way and not snapping at their heels for the remainder of the route. Offer up something that they could use, such as help with route finding or suggestions on changing over the belay more quickly.

Take this approach, and you're likely -- though not guaranteed -- to succeed. Remember, egos are involved and the other team may feel that you're one-upping them. Tread lightly.

From: Lord Slime, 4/23/1999

In the last few years I've found that a fast partner and a crack of noon start to be the answer. By the time you get there, most of the bumblies who started at dawn have already rapped off, or have settled in for an unplanned bivy. Competent parties have already topped out, and you've got the climb to yourself :-)

From: Wally Zwicker, 11/3/1995

There are a few underlying problems to the "Etiquette of Passing".

*There's no passing lanes.

*If this is a wilderness area, then why are there people crawling like ants on this rock?

*What are people doing on a popular route climbing below their ability?

*What are people doing on a popular route climbing above their ability?

*There are >lots< of climbing areas with many adventurous problems like the Needles in California where there are not so many people.

*You can talk about etiquette here on the news group or anywhere else for as long or often as you want-but the inconsiderate people will still be there.

Personally, I would judge the situation on a case by case basis. I'm not very fast on the harder climbs. If I came upon people going slower than me, I would take the time to see if they were all right, and if they were having some kind of problem I could help with.

See also:

Rules of engagement -- how to pass, big-wall style by Hans Florine
Should I let a faster party pass? on Tradgirl

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