How do I coil my rope? Should I use a mountaineer's coil or a butterfly coil? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Brian Nystrom

Since learning the butterfly coil, I no longer use the mountaineer's coil, since it's slower, more cumbersome to carry and twists the rope. The butterfly is fast (you're coiling the rope at double speed), never gets hung up on gear or trees on descents, and doesn't twist the rope at all.

1) Take both ends in one hand, then pull out two full arm's lengths of rope and drop it by your side.

2) Pull out an arm's length of rope and lay it across your hand, forming a loop.

3) Pull out another arm's length of rope and lay it across your palm in the opposite direction from the first one. You should now have a loop of rope hanging on either side of your hand.

4) Repeat steps 2 and 3 until you reach the middle of the rope.

5) Take the length of rope from step 1 and start wrapping it around the loops of rope you're holding, starting near the middle of the loops and wrapping toward your hand.

6) When you have about 6' of rope left, push both ends though the hole in the top of the coil (below the hand that's holding the rope). These become your shoulder "straps".

7) Put the coil on your back with a "strap" over each shoulder. Cross them over the coil behind you and tie them around your waist. You're done.

If you don't need to carry the coil on your back, just make a few more wraps in step 5, pass a loop through the top of the coil, pass the ends through the loop and tie off.

From: Hugh Grierson

I have always used the Butterfly Coil and have been quite pleased with the results, but my new 60 meter 10.5mm rope is hard to hold in one hand as I coil it

Drape the loops behind your neck, over your shoulders. It's a slightly different coiling technique but should be easy enough for you to figure out.

From: Geraint Maddison

I was taught to 'hank' the rope, by flaking it back and forth across my shoulders. Fold the whole bundle in half and finish it off with a few wraps. This is especially effective if you double the line first. Laying the line back and forth like this, rather than coiling it, avoids the twists that you have encountered.

From: Everet Fee

I, too, prefer the butterfly coil. But it's not without a small price, viz. when you want to use the rope you have to flake it twice: the first time to undo the coil, the second to separate the two strands.

From: Greg Opland

By "butterfly", I assume you mean what is also referred to as a "backpackers coil"? If this is true, here's something I've found to help eliminate tangles over the years: After you unwrap the coil, flake out about 15-20 feet with the two lines held together, then you hold onto one end and drop the pile. Continue pulling on just one of the lines, shaking the easy tangles out as you go. This seems to work pretty well most of the time for me.

From: Peter Clitherow

did you try the single butterfly? (i.e. start on a single strand at one end) i find that it never (well...) gets tangled. of course, it's somewhat slower...

From: Paul Brooks

My favourite is to start coiling 3 - 4m from the end and then lap coil (back and forward over your hand with a double arm's length each time) singly until 3 - 4m from the other end. Take the 2 ends and wrap them tightly round the lapped coils (just below your hand), working upwards towards your hand. Leave enough to go over your shoulders and poke a bight of the two ends through the hole between the wrapping turns and the top of the coil. Flick this bight over the top of the coil and pull the ends tight.

The advantages of this are:

1. Lap coiling avoids kinks in the rope.

2. The two ends can be used as a 'rucksack' as you suggest.

3. You don't need to faff about flaking the rope before starting to climb (just undo the wrapping turns and lay the coil down - one end is on the top and the other on the bottom).

Others will suggest different methods but they're wrong.

From: Lowell Anderson

The "mountaineer's coil" is a good example -- Freedom calls it one thing, Long's book series exactly the opposite.

You are probably referring to section "Coiling The Rope" in Long's "How to Rock Climb". While I think that section could use a good dose of editing, I'll give Long the benefit of the doubt and accept that the figure references are wrong--"Standing Coil" and "Mountaineer's Coil" are reversed. Otherwise, Long is the only book, of many I have, that has renamed the butterfly to be the mountaineer's coil. Nah! It's got to be a typo. I have not found any other name used for the mountaineer's coil as described in "Freeom". I have not run across "standing coil" used by Long but it seems a reasonable synonym for the butterfly based on the meaning of "standing". Other names I've seen for the butterfly are double hank and lap.

From: Gordon Schryer

The mountaineers coil is as follows:

1) From one end, coil the rope in loops keeping care that you dont loose the starting-end in the bundle. An easy way to get the right loop size is to sit on the ground and coil the loops around a triangle created by one of your knees and both of your feet. (Keep the starting-end of the rope coil on your high, knee side (on your lap).

2) about two arm lengths from the end, stop coiling. The starting and finishing ends of the rope point in opposite directions. Create a bite in the starting-end so that it folds back along the coil, now pointing in the same direction as the finishing-end. The starting-end should be 12-24 inches long after the bite.

3)with the longer finishing-end begin wraping tight coils around one side bundle of the main coil including the starting-end. Start the tight coils about 8-12 inches from the starting end bite and wrap towards the bite.

4) When you get to the bite you pass the finishing-end through the bite. Pulling on the starting-end tightens the bite around the finishing end.

5) With the starting-end and finishing-end at opposite sides of the tight wraps, tie a square knot in the remaining end lengths.

6) The coil being complete, throw it over your head and shoulder, or over your pack, or strapped under your pack lid and off you go.

(This being said, I prefer the butterfly coil myself).

From: Steve Bateman

Say you wrap the rope around your forearm in the usual quick fashion. The rope wraps on one side of your forearm. If you then take the rope off your forearm, and then flake it out off the opposite side you wraped on from, you will have one twist per wrap around your forearm. This assumes you didn't have any twists in the rope in the first place.

So it is key that you flake the rope off the bundle from the same side it was coiled on from.

From: Roger Peppe

i've always used the standard coil, coiling using my head and one hand, which is possibly what you call the mountaineer coil. the only time i ever get twisting or tangling problems is when someone else coils my ropes (usually i guess because they're coiling it the wrong direction; butterfly coiling doesn't seem so bad, only i always find a butterfly coiled rope more difficult to lay out, but that's probably just my fabled manual incompetence...)

From: Carol Haynes

Actually the very best way to carry and store rope is in a rope sack loosely lapped in. That way you never have to coil or uncoil it and it is kept on a clean surface in use. It's also protected from UV.

See also:

A finished Mountaineer's Coil from Cascade Climbers
A Butterfly Coil with a lot of finishing wraps from Harter-Climbing

Should I let a faster party pass? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Ken Cline, 9/1/2000

Etiquette is the right idea for trade routes. Everyone should be encouraged to use the reasonable person principle (i.e. when in doubt, ask yourself, "what would a reasonable person do", and act accordingly). I doubt we could ever agree on hard and fast rules to govern climbing etiquette.

From: Inez Drixelius, 8/31/2000

If I am part of a slow party, I have the responsibility to evaluate the consequences of what is happening below. Common courtesy should warrant that I offer climbers who are obviously faster and more efficient than I am that they may pass.

If I am fast and can foresee a fiasko in the making and there are good ledges to pass a slow party, I feel that it is okay to ask if I may pass. However, I prefer it is offered, rather than have me ask.

From: Clive Burro, 8/21/2001

I have no problem letting anyone pass as long as intentions are made, discussed and safe passage can be made.

From: Clint Cummins, 4/15/1999

Usually a pass seems OK if the party has been gaining on you steadily -- at least you can expect they won't hold you up by very much. This also gives you some time to conclude that they are going to catch you and consider the idea of a pass. If the party was about the same speed, I don't think they could expect to pass, though.

From: Ron H., 4/16/1999

there are really good reasons to let a group pass. I purposefully sat on a ledge on South Crack, Tuolumne to let a party catch and pass us. I had just gotten way off route on the previous pitch of 5.7 runout friction and the following pitch was "4th class" for a rope length with no pro on a slab. The distant anchor bolts could not be seen, and I was tired of being scared. Since the party had been right behind us the whole way, I really don't know if they were faster. But I did find out that the leader had climbed the route before, so a little stall on my part resulted in being able to see exactly where those invisible bolts were. I have never regretted that decision.

From: Lemnus, 4/16/1999

I would agree to let people pass under certain circumstances. Unfortunately, the only time I've ever done it, the guys ended up being slower on the really hard parts and triggered an epic descent in the dark for my partner and I without head lamps.

From: Dingus Milktoast, 4/21/1999

while letting the occasional fast party pass on a long route is usually cool, in general, allowing someone to pass, and putting yourself in a position to allow it to happen (ie. going too slow, starting late, large parties on popular routes, etc. etc.) is not a good idea and should be considered unsafe. Sure, rude people suck. But the sanctity of my cranium goes beyond polite/rude... good/evil. I just don't like people I don't know climbing over my head in situations where they could cause me serious harm.

Would I prevent a fast party from passing? I don't know... it depends. I must be honest, it doesn't happen too often. I make it my business to get on my routes before others arrive. I generally climb at a speed that while not lightening quick, precludes from being caught by most parties. I stay off really popular routes on the weekends, etc... I make exceptions of course. If I were climbing, um, say Free Blast on El Cap and Steve Snyder and Hans Florine came roped-soloing by, I'd let them go in a heart beat. I could be reasonably sure they would not fall on me or drop something. Most others would have to wait however.

From: Bryan Laws, 9/3/1998

I for one make a point to get on long routes extremely early just so that I don't have some bumbly shuffling his feet above me knocking off any number of widowmakers. I can think of more than one occasion when I have not allowed someone to pass me on a route. That doesn't mean that I'm a dick to them and don't mind if we share a belay or rap ropes at the end or anything. But I can tell you if you aren't a friend of mine that I know understands the importance of eliminating rockfall, then you won't be passing me. I've seem too many situations (especially lately with the "growth" of outdoor/indoor climbing) when people just don't give it the attention deserved.

I have let people pass. Generally I will always let soloists pass b/c I figure they "get it". If I don't think they do, then they WILL wait, and they WILL get pounded if they start shit at the top.

From: John Byrnes, 9/3/1998

On routes that go straight up and have a lot of loose rock, I agree with you. However, there's also a lot of routes that don't go straight up and if you find a loose rock it's a meteorite that landed on the ledge the night before.

On safe and popular climbs, it is MUCH preferred that you let other climbers pass or climb. There's a lot of climbers out there these days, and not any more rock.

From: Dingus Milktoast, 9/4/1998

In general, it is not safer to be climbing beneath another party and I don't care if it's Peter Croft and Hans Florine. I suppose it's safer for the party you let pass, but... in general... I'd say they should get their asses out of bed earlier if that's such a concern.

I have a passing rule that I deploy on the highway and on climbing routes. I will gladly let anyone pass as long as it's safe and they don't slow me down in the process. Too many times you let someone pass, they run into the party ahead of you and then you end up sitting on a belay ledge (or hanging your ass in the wind) for over an hour waiting for the traffic jam to resolve. I wouldn't be receptive to letting a marginally faster party pass either.

From: Brutus of Wyde, 9/1/2000

It depends on the route. There are some ice climbs in Canada, for example, where more than one party creates an unsafe situation due to extreme rock and icefall hazard. In those cases, if a party gets on the climb behind me, because I got up 2 hours earlier to get the jump on the climb, that's their problem. No way will I let them pass and climb above me. And if I get on a similar climb below another team, I accept the hazard that is presented. Or climb something else.

From: Tom Rogers, 9/3/1998

I usually while let someone pass if they're cool about the situation (rarely have I refused before). What I hate is when people clip your pro. This just makes the whole conversation go to hell. And not to mention that the risk to the your climbing party goes up because the guy is too damn rude to place his own gear and if he should fall... well you know the rest of the story. Actually I'm just big enough and bad tempered enough that if he clips the pro he will probably find himself un-clipped and or fisting it out mid way up the pitch. I'm not saying that I would ever put someones life at risk but people should learn to not push others buttons and climb like gentleman--the sport will be the better for it. Ass holes are un-cool and need a good 'ol ass kicking when they get back to the car. Pretty soon the whole damn sport will be like a group of ass-hole surfers trying to stick their boards in some guys head.

See also:

When, where, and how should I pass a slower party? on Tradgirl

Beginners and Non-Climbers: Page 1 2

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