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About Tradgirl
Buying Rock Climbing Gear (Page 1 2)
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:  Trusting your life to something you read on the internet is just plain stupid.  Get corroboration from a more reliable source, use your common sense, don't get yourself killed, and don't come crying to us if you do.

What should I use to make a cordelette? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

Note: some of these answers were taken from Gunks.com

From: Tokyo Bill

With respect to materials, the choices I've seen most frequently suggested are 5.5mm Spectra cord, 7mm perlon accessory cord and 6mm perlon accessory cord. All apparently get the job done. My personal comments on each are as follows:

Spectra: This is what I carry. It's way stronger than anything else out there, and the narrow diameter is a plus for carrying. With respect to handling characteristics, its stiffer than perlon, which is a little bit of a pain, but I don't think its a big problem in a cordalette. Spectra's got a much lower melting point than perlon, which means that you run a higher risk of burn-through if it gets subjected to friction somewhere in the system. However, I don't ordinarily expect a cordalette to be subjected to friction, so I'm willing to accept this risk. Finally, Spectra is slippery, which means an ordinary double fishermans knot doesn't do the job. Make sure you tie it with a triple fishermans and consider finishing this with overhand knots.

7mm perlon: Amply strong (not as strong as spectra, but with a higher melting point). Nice handling, although a bit bulky to carry. No complaints about this alternative.

6mm perlon: Should be strong enough. Nice handling and the smaller diameter makes it more compact to carry than 7mm. Just doesn't feel beefy enough to me, and I wouldn't make it my first choice for this reason.

One additional comment with respect to length. I've sometimes seen recommendations in climbing books and on other forums of 16 or 18 feet for tying cordalettes. My own feeling is that you're better off with at least 20 feet, and mine are actually a bit longer (around 21-22 feet). Cordalettes are at their best for letting you rig together and (sort of) equalize widely-spaced pieces quickly and efficiently. It's a real pain in the butt to discover that your cordalette isn't long enough - kinda defeats the purpose.

From: TZ McBetsey

I've got two...first one 18 feet (recommendation of John Long in his anchor book). That's too short, in my opinion, unless you happen to luck into anchor points that are very close to one another; and it requires that you stand right up against the rock when belaying up a second. Sub-optimal, to say the least. My other one is 21 feet long, and seems just about right, but if you want 4 pieces for your anchor (rather than the nominal three), your cordalette will need to be longer than that.

From: Steve Y

5.5mm High Tenacity Vectran Cordelettes

These are sold by Sterling Rope Company they are as strong as Spectra, but as supple as nylon. I got the 25' but it's too long 21' I think would be best for most trad applications. The downside is expense, about $1/foot. The upside lighter, stronger and less bulky.

From: http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/High_Strength_Cord.pdf

How strong should your anchor be? One arm of a Vectran cordelette, for example, fails at only 2600 lb (11.5 kN). This is little stronger than a good carabiner in the open-gate mode - and the material gets weaker with use. Is this strong enough? One can easily argue that the drop test we performed is unduly harsh. First, it uses a completely static belay. A sticht-plate or tube belay-device can reduce the peak impact forces significantly. Second, the lead rope is run through the central anchor point. This practice increases the load at the anchor. Third, the test loaded only one arm of a cordelette. While the cordelette anchor does not equalize when the belayer shifts position, there is typically enough stretch in each arm that all three will be loaded to varying degrees in a major impact. Fourth, Chris Harmston, Black Diamond's Quality Assurance Manager, has reviewed field failures of climbing gear for eight years. He has never seen a stopper rated at over 10 kN fail, and has seen only a few carabiners fail in closed-gate mode. He believes that forces exceeding 10kN rarely happen in climbing falls.

All that said, we do not think it is unreasonable to expect one arm of the anchor to hold at least one UIAA fall on a soft rope when both the rope and the cordelette material are new! The decrease in strength with use is a worry for any of the Technora, Kevlar or Vectran materials. The Gemini and the Spectra-A are also extremely stiff and difficult to tie and untie. An 18 -foot piece makes a bulky object hanging from the harness. They make excellent chock cord (where a stiff cord is desirable), but would make a poor cordelette. Among the high-strength cords, Titan seems to be the most suitable material for cordelettes. The Ultratape is even better, and the webolette is an elegant solution to multi-point anchors, although we'd prefer to see slightly higher strength on the single-strand arms. Last, Nylon cord and webbing may be the best of all. Although heavier, they are cheap, strong, universally available, and seem to have a virtually unlimited flex life.

From: David Kreindler

In your exceprt "From: http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/High_Strength_Cord.pdf", I think a couple of editorial comments are needed to clarify that what they refer to as "Gemini" is Gemini-2 (Technora) and what they refer to as "Titan" is Spectra (Dyneema). Someone who relies on the excerpt without referring to the article quoted might be left confused.

From: Wallhack

Consider getting a Web-o-lette. Much lighter, less messy, and quick to set up an anchor.

From: Julie Haas

I have a web-o-lette, but I'm still not sold on it. It's great and fast at a two-bolt belay; but for oh, say, three not-so-close pieces, you have nowhere near enough length to join them, much less tie the required knot. So, as noted above, it defeats its own purpose - you have to use runners to extend everything.

See also:

How to Choose and Use Webbing and Accessory Cord on REI

How does buying stuff from Barrabes work if I live in the US? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: James Kirby

I've never had a problem with their customer service in many orders and have in many cases received my order that same week (phoned the order rather than online).

From: Kai Larson

I have had good experiences with Barrabes. Three friends have also purchased from them. One of them experienced a long delay (several weeks) in receiving gear because it was out of stock (they didn't notify him that a delay was expected). The others received their gear within a week.

If they have what you want, the prices are pretty much unbeatable.

From: Jason Liebgott

Barrabes has given me problems. First they didn't have some of the stuff in stock that they had on their site. Then they shipped to my billing address instead of the shipping address, then once I got the gear they sent the wrong size cams.

Also, for some reason my shipment got held up in Customs. They said it was because they didn't recieve a detailed description of the goods. I had to fax a description to NY.

I contacted them and it took over 2 weeks to hear back, but they did say they'd cover the shipping back to them. Also, I got a customs bill for like $18 on the imported goods - so expect that.

From: Chris Watford

You'll get totally hosed at customs when it comes into this country, EASILY more than the $ you saved. Since ecommerce is dicey to customs folks, they check everything now, especially from Canada.

From: Michael Gordon

NOT TRUE in all cases. I just made the exact purchase he speaks of (Rambos' from Barrabes) and paid nothing more than the item cost plus DHL shipping charges. nothing more.

From: Chalkula (on Gunks.com)

Just a further note, if you spend over a certain amount of money, in my case just over $200, don't be surprised to get a bill from DHL or other shipper for import tax due, I got one for $18.00. I don't know at what dollar amount constitutes the tax but just be prepared. ( I still saved over $85.00 on an altimeter, even with the charges!)

From: Geoff

Be aware that all imports are assessible for Customs Duty. In the US you may in most cases import $2000 for personal use as long as it is not prohibited in any way.

The climbing stuff in Barrabes is OK. The amount of duty also depends on the status of the country imported from. Spain is OK.

The duty on Ice tools will be 4%, again nothing compared to the savings.

However if goods are not declared for customs, they will be confiscated. Not nothing. And you will be subject to penalties as well as losing the gear. Ouch.

and from a later post

Everything is assessed for duty. The $2000 is an allowance for personal use that you are allowed without getting an import licence. You only get a duty free allowance if you are travelling with the goods. The duty free would be (guessing amount here) the first $200 is exempt from paying duty, and the duty rate applied to everything else.

The Country of Origin and Import country means what rate of tariff you pay. Spain is a favored Country and you pay the lowest rate. Also the common country of Origin for Ice tools (UK, France, Italy) are also favored. From a shoes perspective Boreal is a Spanish company and qualifies. I did not look up Czeck.

4% on Ice tools is because I looked them up on the Customs website. They come under "sports equipment". and have a 4% rate. I did not look up shoes. This would also be a Customs interpretation, are climbing shoes clothing or sports equipment.

Yes, lots of people do not declare or pay State sales tax. State tax departments do not have the same powers of search and siezure as the US Customs. If you really want to p*ss someone off, pick a target that will make your life miserable.

My position is that even with declaring and paying the duty the gear is a great price. The only time you really lose is if you try to get away with it and get caught.

This only affects me if so many people get caught that they disallow personal imports, then I get screwed too. The other thing that applies is some stuff has import limits. Once x of these are imported no more can be that year, personal or commercial. Then you either pay Customs storage until next year, or send it back. This does not apply to undeclared goods, they are siezed and either sold at auction or destroyed.

From: Mike Garrison

An actual reference

You can carry in $400 of goods without duty, but you can only have $200 of goods mailed to you. However, there seems to be no limit to how many separate <$200 orders you can have mailed to you.

The website notes "There are some exceptions". I think this means booze, perfume, and tobacco, but I'm not sure.

See also:

Barrabes English Version
Check With 'US' Before Shopping Online – US Customs
Your Responsibility and Liability as an Importer from the U.S. Customs Service

What cams should I buy? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Nate Beckwith

First - there are two brands of cams to choose from - Wild Country, and Black Diamond. Also CCH for the smaller sizes. Everything else is cheap crap only purchased with future regret by poor high school students and clueless newbies looking for meaningless functionality. This should be the end of this post, except I just ate a big lunch.

Take a look in any guidebook from anywhere. Do you see "Bring a # 2 [insert off-brand crap cam here] for the crux" or [insert off-brand crap cam here] mentioned in the gearlists? Better print out a decoder table. Maybe the fact that the rest of the friggin world sticks to two brands of cams should be a clue. Go to your nearest store and try to find trigger kits for [insert off-brand crap cam here] cams. Also, I guarantee that anyone you partner up with is going to want to climb with cams they are familiar with. If you dump a bunch of [insert off-brand crap cam here] into the community pile, expecting that you'll be making some sort of contribution rather than being perceived as a clueless cheapskate - just wait.

Now - which cam? BD or WC? Get 1 set of BD, then lots and lots of WCs. Here's why: Your observation that BD cams are heavier is an astute one. That's why when you start carrying 2-15 each racks, you'd rather they be something light - like WC rigid stem friends for the larger sizes, and flex friends for the smaller sizes. BD cams, however, are the best thing for routes where you need a sparse rack. Fewer (and thereby lighter) BD cams can cover the same spectrum. Take your little calculator and add up the weight of the .5, .75, 1-3 Camalots, then compare that weight to however many [insert off-brand crap cam here] cams you need to bring to cover the same spectrum. Toss in some CCH Aliens or maybe a flex friend or two for sizes smaller than the .5 Camalot.

Oh - and ignore the advertised strengths of cams. None of them will break. Move on.

From: Christian Brooks

I agree, you ain't going to break a cam. Metolious TCUs are great, Trango TCUs are great. But, both companies FCUs suck- horrible designs. A mixture of Friends and Camalots is the way to go. Throw in A few Aliens and a set of TCUs and you will get where you want to.

From: Brent Ware

Since I got my offset Aliens, I have not wanted to place a TCU ever. The only time I do is when I run out of Aliens. If I had it to do over, I'd skip the TCUs and just get more Aliens.

And sorry Nate, but I like my HB quadcams. They're beauties, and in using them 10 years, I've had one trigger break, compared to each of my Camalots having the trigger replaced one or more times, just about every six months. I'll take not needing to get new triggers over being able to find them in any shop (and I send them to Vermin anyway for beefy cheap fixes - they seem to hold up better than the original triggers, haven't had to get one of them replaced yet).

That said, I haven't bought any more, just new Camalots and Friends. So what Nate said.

From: Karl Pfleger

These [note: refers to WC and BD] are the predominant brands purchased by people who have a lot of money or enough time to work in a climbing gym or outdoors-type stores like REI and thus get big discounts. Plenty of other brands make excellent quality cams and other pro.

Furthermore, both the WC Friends and BD Camalots have a single stem design, which has certain advantages and disadvantages (as do the Alients). The cams this poster is insulting mostly have dual-stem U-shaped design, which is better in some conditions than the single-stem design, so it is helpful to have a variety. Variety is also helpful to increase the chance of having something fit well as the different manufacturers have slightly different sizes.

If you want really cheap but nonetheless perfectly functioning and strong cams check out www.rockempire.com. You can get a set of 5 cams covering the most common sizes for $125, or 8 cams which are these 5 plus 3 microcams very very similar to Alients for $180 total. I'm not affiliated, just a happy customer. There are many extensive discussions about these cams on the message boards on the gunks.com website, including posts by both people who have used them with good results in holding falls while really climbing and posts by a number of independent purchasers who put them through a series of tests. They are a lot like the Metolious or Trango cams. For $25/cam you can get two sets and then not have to worry if you lose one.

From: Charles Tarzen

I hate Wild Country friends. I find them useless. In the ten years I've owned my flexifriends I've placed them maybe, maybe 2 times each. My Camalots saw a lot of action and still do but I prefer metolius. The TCU's simply can't be beat (except if you're aiding, then use aliens) for thin. I usually rack all metolius these days, except for super wide cracks. But if I'm building an alpine rack I sling a set of nuts, a set of .5-2 tricams, 1-3 TCU (metolius of course), and a .75, 1, 2 , 3, and #4 camalot. Covers everything I've ever run into.

From: B. Cooke

DMM's walk -- oh do they walk... even if you put long slings on them. In fact they are the worst cams i have used in that manner (out of BD, Metolius, rigid friends, and DMM). The DMM's on my rack have walked out of placements entirely and, on the other end of things, into placements so badly that I've had to ruin them getting them out. Also, the DMM's trigger is shit (maybe becasue of the storng spring?) -- it's not smooth at all (like the silky metolius') and requires more lubing than any of the other cams I've used.

From: Jeremy Pulcifer

I shopped around a lot and played with a bunch of partners gear before I bought my current set. I chose WC Friends. I'm not a BD Camalot fan, because they're so stinkin heavy, and the Metolius are a bit sketchy in the bigger sizes because the axle lengths are too short.

Spring strength is a good thing to look at as well. I wasted $280 on a set of trango cams, not realizing that their light springs would make them super-prone to walking. I've lost a couple already.

From: Tom Stybr

The difference in weight between full sets of Camalots (13 pieces - 6 pounds) and Tech Friends (14 pieces - 5 pounds) is <drum roll> one pound. Make it one and one-quarter if subbing Forged for like-sized Tech's.

From: Inez Drixelius

We agree then--the basic set of cams very much ought to be camalots because they are so versatile. What I am suggesting is something lighter for backup cams. Oh hell, when I first started buying cams, I bought all sorts of stuff I didn't like and it took a while to find what suited me. I think the home crag of the original poster should be taken into consideration too.

From: Chris Kantarjiev

I don't know what John will say (I find it ... dangerous to try to predict what he'll say :-) but as a beginner who received similar advice from another one of the Old Ones on this group, I'll say I am happy with the results. Why? I care less about the weight (if I did, I'd still be paying attention to the diet pissing war between Cline and Kastrup) than I care about my poor ability to choose the right cam off my rack. Practice will help, and I'm getting better, but until I get a lot better I'm happy that the Camalots are more forgiving of picking the "wrong" cam than Friends would be. Learning to place gear on lead is strenuous enough without extra gear fumbling.

From: John Brynes

However, this is all hypothetical since the most important factor to consider is: What kind of rock will you be climbing most often in your local area? In other words, where do your local areas lie in the spectrum between Indian Creek (long parallel cracks that only take cams) and Eldo (short pitches, lots of passive placements, discontinuous & varied cracks).

For Indian Creek & Yosemite, for example, Friends are going to be better. For Eldo-like places, Camalots will usually be better. For the Gunks, a flexible stem is better, for...

See also:

Rock Protection Device Size Range Charts on Tradgirl
Weight/Range Comparison Charts
SLCD Camming Ranges and SLCD (Weight)
True camming unit sizes (ie, real world usage ranges)

Which helmet should I buy? / Should I get a foam helmet or a hard shell helmet? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Eric

As far as hard shell vs foam climbing helmets they both have advantages and dissadvantages (and neither is rated for multiple impacts. The advantage of the hard shell is improved penetration resistance and reasonable impact protection from above. The disadvantage is no side impact protection. This makes them great if your concern is something falling on your head, but not so good if your planning on taking the fall and banging your head on the ground a few times. The foam helmets dont have the same kind of resistance to penetration but are ideal hitting your head during a fall.

From: Hank Moon (Petzl)

The biggest problem with Bike helmets is that they're rated for ONE impact. That might not be bad if you're only a single pitch

This is also the reality of climbing helmets. They are also rated for one significant impact, so any type of lightweight helmet will have the same "problem". The following text appears in the technical notice for the ECRIN ROC:

Major shock
Do not continue to use this product after a major shock : even though no visible signs are possible, internal damage may have occurred, thus reducing its strength and its margin of safety. Do not hesitate to contact PETZL in case of doubt.

Lifetime
It is known that equipment deteriorates progressively with use. After first use this product may have a life of up to 5 years, without taking wear into account. However wear or damage could occur on the first use which limits its life to that use.

Some people think the foam helmets are bunk because a falling rock can take a chunk out. I call this a safety feature: if there is apparent damage, the user will perhaps be less likely to keep on wearing it. There is a perception among some wearers of hard-shelled helmets that because damage isn't readily visible after a major impact, the helmet is still good. This is incorrect: please see the "Major shock" text above.

So If I read you right, here, you are saying that on pitch #6 when that foam bike helmet is badgered into nonexistence, the Ecrin is no better...???

Correct, except for the "nonexistence" part :-)

Even if the damage is not visible...??? Granted, I don't have x-ray eyes, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the fallacy here...My money will stay on something that is still intact after any impact. Petzl has to put the major shock disclaimer in for liability reasons...

As stated before, the "intactness" of a hard shell helmet after a major impact is an illusion. This is not stated as a disclaimer for liability reasons, but is a fact established in testing. A major impact can weaken the helmet in ways undetectable by visual inspection. I completely understand why one would prefer a hard hat for the reason stated above - it is easier and more comforting to believe that helmet looks good = helmet is good.

From: Stevie Prouty

What I have a problem with is the fragile nature of the foam style helmets. They just don't last as far as I'm concerned. The Grivel literally fell apart after what I thought was "normal use", i.e. treated just like I did my Ecrin Roc. And the Meteor looks to be a little better quality but after a single use already has a small section where the shell and the cap have come undone. I guess I'll keep my eye on it and see how long it lasts. I'm betting two seasons at best.

From: Hank Moon

I agree completely with your discussion of overall durability, stuffing in pack, tossing in car, etc. My 4-year old Meteor is way more beat up than my 8-year old Ecrin (oops, guess I should retire it, but it's one of those cool marble ones . . . looks so good in photos!). There is no doubt the foam helmets are more susceptible to minor damage from incidental knocks in general use.

From: Christopher Hall

I would suggest trying some on and see what feels best. If you read the reviews, you can narrow it down to a small group that is designed for the types of climbing you will be doing. The next most important thing is comfort. Go figure out what fits your head best and which you feel most comfortable adjusting/etc. Put it on in the store and then sit down to read or browse around a while, and see if you get used to having it on your head. The ones with a bad fit will always remind you that you are wearing it. My experience is that they never feel great at first, so give yourself some time to get used to it. If you can find a few that fit well, then you can choose according to weight and/or style.

From: Toby

If you buy a helmet, the white ones absorb less sun and don't cook your head so much.

From: Dave Condit

I would go with the Ecrin Roc. I think it has the best adjustment system available.

From: brynstrom

If you're going to do any winter climbing, get the Ecrin Roc. The dial adjustments readily (and quickly) accomodate use with and without hats, hoods, balclavas, etc.

From: Adrian Marches

I got the new Petzl Meteor and I love it. It covers more of your head, is very comfortable, and is very light. Sometimes I forget I'm wearing a helmet.

From: Karl Lew

I have Meteor and Roc. I wear the Meteor 'cuz it's lighter. I also wear it on my head, not in my pack.

From: Rex Pieper

I really like the Meteor and have done walls in mine too. They're far more durable than you might believe, just give them a little more respect than you might the indestructable Roc and put them at the top of your pack and you'll be fine.

From: Jim Forbes

I've been pelted by all kinds of stuff for the last 6 or 7 years while wearing an Edelrid and have been generally pleased. It's not so heavy as to make you want to not wear it, but it still has some meat to it.

From: Jeff Wright

The Ecrin Roc really is a great helmet, but you can get a helmet that is lighter and almost as comfortable for $30.00 less (this is saving a lot more than "only a few dollars" in my book). I used to own the Ecrin Roc, but now I have an HB (can't remember the model name). The Ecrin Roc costs close to $75.00 anywhere you look (I have yet to see them on sale). The HB only went at $45.00. The only drawback is that the HB isn't nearly as adjustable, but the way I see it, how many tmes do you need to adjust the fit of your own helmet?

From: Michael Sharp

I just bought a HB Carbon-Kevlar EL Cap and It is one of the most comfortable helmets I have worn.

From: John Muchow

I just got back from a 8-day trip and the BD Half Dome was very comfortable, even with a baseball cap underneath for a bit of sun protection for the face. For me, it fits well, adjusts easily, and took a lot of abuse as we wandered around the Linville Gorge dodging lightening.

From: Mike Yukish

This is a funny. Do you need to be told?

I use a plastic trash bag filled with polyurethane spray insulation, then shove my head into a small wastebasket while the urethane sets. It forms to my noggin perfectly. I use coat hangers for re-bar, and leave the ends protruding to act as curb feelers. I paint it bright orange, with my blood type, HMO number, and names of next-of-kin on it (although if you ask them, they will deny it). Sometimes I tie streamers to it to use as a windsock for my second. Often birds roost on it, so I my tie a piece of suet on. I sell advertising for Power Bars and that nasty power gel too.

See also:

Climbing Helmets by Don Rolph
Light Mountaineering Gear: Helmets by Nancy Prichard
Can I use a [whatever] helmet as a climbing helmet? on Tradgirl
What should I use for eye protection / a helmet? in Tradgirl's Ice Climbing FAQ
Should I wear a helmet? / Why don't people wear helmets? on Tradgirl

Which harness should I buy? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Brent McDaniel

My girlfriend has a Calidris and she likes it. I've worn in a couple of times and it's pretty comfortable but it has some things that I don't care for such as no haul loop and only 4 gear loops although I do like petzl's autodoubleback buckles. I've got a Misty Mountain Threadworks quantum that I really like. Very comfortable, 6 gear loops, belay and haul loop, all that good stuff. It's a little pricey but, if you're looking at the calidris, it should be in your price range.

From: Marc Andre Giasson

I've owned a Calidris for about a year now, and here are my thoughts:

It's nice not to have to double back, but it's not a really important feature. It's not much faster than double backing the old-style harnesses.

Gear loops are good. I would prefer that the rear ones would be a bit more to the side (slightly more toward the front of the harness), but it's about the same as any other harness I tried.

There's one bad thing on it, but I found it to be a *major* drawback. (I'll try to describe it but it might seem complicate. E-mail me if you'd like me to try to explain better.)

It's the elastic strap which goes from the leg loops to the back of the harness, and the plastic clip that attaches the strap to the harness proper. When I am on a hanging/semi-hanging belays or when I rap, (when I lean on my harness for support) the elastic band extends a lot, so it's like if the leg loops would go down, and the waist belt up, and I end up not having much support at all. Also, the elastic strap under tension pulls on the plastic clip, so that clip always ends up unclipping. Then, there's nothing to hold the leg loops high, and you always realize it when you're in an awkward position.

From: Dawn Alguard

What I like about my Petzl auto-double-back harness is being able to adjust the fit without ever being unsafely not doubled back. It's nice if you want to add or remove a layer mid-route. What I don't like about my Petzl auto-double-back harness is the fear that I'll forget to double back my other harness because the habit isn't ingrained deeply enough.

From: Steven Cherry

I have the Gourou, the predecessor to the Calidris (who was the greek goddess of mexican sushi and light jazz, for those who were wondering), and a big wall harness (Yates Shield). Things I like about each

Gourou

. auto-double-back, also 2 buckles so the tie-in is always centered

. though thin, it's fairly wide. comfortable for everything but hanging belays

. great for ice - easy adjusting, light, doesn't absorb water, folds into my winter helmet

. only comes in two sizes, I can lend to almost anyone and it will fit

. decent gear loops (I rack draws and put pro on a sling) negatives - name and color

Yates

. mega padding, both thick and wide, great especially for those of us climbing with a broken back

. lots of well-thought-out gear loops including hammer loop

. full-strength haul loop negatives - bulky in the pack, heavy, belt is slick and hard to tie with breath-gasping tightness

Ditto Dawn's fears about one auto-double-back harness and one not. I triple-check myself when wearing the Yates.

From: Mark Heyman

I just replaced a Targa with a Vero. The Waist sizes listed by REI for a medium are 28.5 to 33.5. I didn't see any sizing information on the Arc'Teryx site. I have a 32" waist, and I wear it cinched up as tight as it will go.So it just fits me, but certainly doesn't fit the expected range.

Overall it is a nicer harness though. It's almost as though my own personal improvement list were implemented, even things just on my wish and not all that important. Better form - wider in the back. Nice way of overlapping ends of the waist belt. More comfortable material inside waist and legs. Larger gear loops in front and smaller in back, haul loop. My Targa didn't have one.

If your not being picky similar BD harnesses are available for almost half the price making the Arc'Terx line seem pricey to me. Yet I bought one anyway.

From: Julie Haas

I had a Countour for a while. It's a harness. It'd be fine.

Caveats: the buckle for dropping the leg loops is at the leg loop (instead of at the waist) which can be uncomfortable to sit on at times. Also, as noted by the gearreview guy, the gear loops are somewhat farther back than in other harnesses. En fin, I found that the webbing at the leg loop buckle ended up entering that buckle at strange angles, and so it seemed to frazzle and get worn out pretty fast, comparatively. I was least happy about that.

The Arc Teryx harnesses seem to be popular, with good reason. I was going to replace the Metolius with one, but then I found a Wild Things catalog. Now I'm happy.

From: Greg Sadowy

I have the Contour Wide, which is o-so-cushy. As well as having lots of padding, it has adjustable leg loops and rise, so it's pretty much guaranteed to fit well. I'm very happy with it. However, you won't like it if you are a gram-shaving weight weenie; it's on the heavy side.

From: Aya Kristen Alt

The metolius 3-D wide doesn't come in an XS, and the S is just ever so slightly too big on me (and I'm by no means a small girl). *sigh*. maybe they figure chicks don't need the extra padding or something.

From: Shilajit T Gangulee

re: the ArcTeryx Targa

I've found mine fine for long hanging belays, though i haven't taken any big falls on it yet, so I can't attest to that. Although I think the leg loops are a little on the small side throughout the sizes.

Special Needs:

Multi-season

From: Dave Condit

I found the Petzl Gourou to be excellent for a mult-ipurpose harness. The padding is made of dense foam that does not absorb water (stay away from fleece padding for winter climbing). It has adjustable leg loops and a very adjustable waist, all very good for layering. In my experience, Petzl's buckles are easier to adjust with gloves and/or frozen hands. The harness also has dropable leg loops for a nice, easy crap.

I've used mine for gym, sport, trad, bigwall, alpine, and ice. There's probably a better harness for any given use, but it does a pretty good job on everything.

From: Kai Larson

Black Diamond Blizzard Harness.

Comfy enough for summer cragging, light enough for alpine. Adjustable leg loops. A good all-around harness.

Cheap/simple/lightweight/alpine

From: Shabber

I like the fit & feel & cost of the Black Diamond Bod harness. It's available everywhere.

Adjustable leg straps, padded waist, no dorky belay loop getting in the way, and only $49.

I like mine :-)

From: Geoff Jennings

I've never actually worn the Alpine Bod, but I did use a Bod for my frist year+ pf climbing, and after wearing a REI spire (also $49, at the time) I couldn't believe I'd been wearing that piece of crap for a year. For the same amount of money you can get WAY nicer harnesses. I'm AMAZED the Bod is as popular as it is, and that poepl would actually choose either for anything other than alpine stuff...

From: Robert Williams

I will agree that the alpine bod is pretty damn uncomfy but I use it for alpine applications (go figure) and have tons of soft clothing on under it. The Bod is not the most comfy of rock harnesses--I would not want to do any hanging belays in it--but for indoor climbing and sport cragging its a fine value.

From: Greg Kneser

I have a Bod and I love it. I've done hanging belays in it, taken whippers in it, done trad, sport, TR, whatever. It's comfortable for _me_.

From: Jim Cormier

For low cost try the Trango vertical or Singing Rock attack. Both are very similar and feature padded waist and leg loops, fully adjustable,have gear loops,.... Cost $40- $45

Guest/adjustable

From: Geoff Jennings

Most of the super-adjustable harnesses, sold for guides and schools are very similar. I have the BD one, which I use for takinf folks out, and have been pleased.

From: Alan Lindsay

If the still make it, the Advanced Base Camp (I think it's called the Guide Harness) is ideal. Even more adjustable that the Black Diamond Bod.

It will fit someone as skinny as your arm or as large as you think the gear will hold!

No padding or gear loops, it's simply three wide webs, buckles and a belay loop.

From: Fritz Lowery

I'll second this. I've got one that my father, not a skinny man, wore and so did a rather lightweight ex-girlfriend. Fully adjustable, with belay loop, $25 or thereabouts.

From: Jim Cormier

I use the Advanced Base Camp Adjustable Guide harness for my clients and we also sell them for starter packages and for schools and camps. They are a one size fits all and very inexpensive $30 but unpadded and no gear loops. Another good one is the Trango Cosmic which is one size fits all and has a gear loop but costs $37.50.

From: Aya Kristen Alt

I believe that the Petzl Club now comes with a single gear loop (and no doubling back the buckles to deal with, to boot.) I don't remember if the BD Vario had gear loops at all, but it's very similar to the Club, with one exception - the combo loop says very prominently, TIE IN HERE. I always got a kick out of that :)

From: Greg Daughtry

The ABC harness is good.

Misty Mountain Threadworks also makes the Fudge, which is another very cheap FULLY adjustable harness.

The bod would not be a good choice to fit the 100lb-250lb range.

Back problems

From: David Kreindler

My usual partner suffers from lower-back pain and found happiness with a Petzl Corax. She did some hang testing in a Calydris too but found that the Corax was more comfortable for her back -- presumably due to the single wide swami instead of the double narrow swami.

Pregnancy

From: Don Rolph

I do know that Patty Crowther climbed (leading if I am not mistaken) well into her pregnancy (8 1/2 months comes to mind, but this is a long way back). I believe she used a chest harness.

From: Clint Cummins

My wife used an old (large-sized) Whillans sit harness. Checking over my old trip reports I see she was still climbing at 7 months (fairly large at that point) (2 months before our first child).

See also:

Climbing Harness Field Test by John Walter
Climbing Harnesses from Epinions.com
What harness should I buy for big walls? on Tradgirl

Buying Rock Climbing Gear: Page 1 2

Most of the information in this FAQ was originally posted on rec.climbing. If you would prefer to have something attributed to you removed from this FAQ, please contact us.

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