How do I clean the tubes for my water bladder (Platypus, Camelback, etc.)? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Crispin

I disinfected it with TCP, it tasted of TCP for a week and tastes fine now but still covered in cr*p on the inside.

So I tried soaking it in bicarbonate of soda, dunno why really. Oh yes, it's because it's what you use on a thermos.

Still not clean though - any ideas?

From: Martin Whittaker

You could just replace the tube. And no, I don't mean you should hand over another surprisingly large quantity of dosh for the genuine Platypus article. Have you noticed that the Platypus flexible bottles are only a couple of quid, but if you buy a bottle with a drinking tube you'll be shelling out in the region of twenty notes?

Go to B&Q or Homebase and buy a couple of metres of food grade 5mm clear PVC tubing at around 85p a metre. It's usually sold from a roll at the bottom of the same display rack as the ropes & chains (handy if you need to re-stock your S&M supplies at the same time). Trim it to the length you need and swap the mouthpiece and bottle attachment on to it from your old, grungy tube.

Tips and wrinkles:

1 - Slit the ends of old tube lengthwise with a sharp knife to get the mouthpiece and bottle attachment off.

2 - Platypus use 6mm tubing and your new tube will be only 5mm. No problem: just dip the ends of the new tube in boiling hot water for a second to soften it up and the Platy fittings will slip right in.

3 - If you think the Play fittings might be grungy as well then, as Carol suggested, try soaking them in Milton or similar, following instructions per baby feeding equipment.

Advantages: You can make the tube just the right length for you and your favourite pack.

Disadvantages: Theoretically the 5mm tube doesn't flow as much liquid as the 6mm. In practice I've not noticed any difference. YMMV.

From: Chris May

Another top tip for use once you've cleaned/replaced the current grotty tube: In between trips, wash the whole thing out, then store it in the freezer. Result, the gunge doesn't grow as quick and you get much more mileage out of your platy before you have to replace it again.

I've found this to be very effective when dealing with platypi used for carbohydrate "sports" drinks - it would appear that PSP-22 encourages the growth of a mould species which nothing short of concentrated nitric acid will shift.

From: Dominic Sexton

To prevent gunge building up always rinse with clean water and thoroughly dry the tube after use. It can be dried by whirling it round your head vigorously.

From: David Bennett

To clean bladder systems...

1) Buy baby bottle steraliser (tablets or fluid)

2) Buy Camelbak brush set (one large - never used; one small - frequently used)

3) Buy mouthwash (apparently)

4) Make up steraliser according to instructions and put into bladder

5) leave to soak for a while (about 1 hour or so)

6) User camelbak brush set (thin brush) to clean tube - you may have to remove tube to clean from both ends

7) Rinse a lot

8) Fill with water and taste... Spit out as it still tastes of chlorine

9) Rinse with a small amount of mouthwash

10) Rinse with a lot of water

11) Use as originally intended

12) Watch stuff grow inside over time

13) clean again when you get tonsilitus/ the runs/ some other ailment from the water.

From: Adrian Berry

I have a perfect method: you get some stiff wire and feed it into the tube, then bend it slightly and roll the tube between your fingers so that the stiff wire scrapes off the build-up. I do it quite regularly and it works perfectly.

From: Julie Haas

A pretty good idea is to keep it in the freezer (which is conveniently a less-than-bacteria-friendly environment) between uses. On super-hot days (Moab in July, for instance), starting out with frozen fluid is a *good* thing!

I usually pop for a new one once a year or so - all told, there's too many little spots I can't get to, and GI health is worth the $20 or so a year.

See also:

Platypus® Frequently Asked Questions

How do I resling my cams? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Jonesyboy

BD does it for a nominal service fee. Call the warentee dept.

From: Ken Cline

You could send them Wild Country, USA in North Conway, NH. I think they contract out that work, but its a start. There are plenty of other options, including companies like Fish and Wild Things.

From: Julie Haas

Ragged Mountain, in North Conway, also re-slings friends.

From: Jim Cormier

Try Forest safety products in Durango Colorado

From: Andy Gale

Fish Products does it.

From: Paul Heinrich

Yates and Wild Things do re-sling active camming units that don't require specific webbing sizes.

From: Steven Tregay

For old style camalots you can cut about 1/4" off each side of the black plasic and then fit a camalot Jr thumb piece and then sling. This only works on 1 and 2's. This was in a quick clip in climbing some time this past spring.

From: Chris Harmston (Black Diamond)

This may have been in quick clips, but this is not recommended by Black Diamond in any way. The following is a letter I sent to Climbing magazine folloing another letter to them regarding slinging Camalots.

From: Karl Lew

From a safety standpoint, you should have your cams reslung by Black Diamond. Look carefully at your cams and you'll see the sling is doubled up across the wire. The plastic insert breaks in high impact falls, leaving just the wire holding your sling, and that wire is mighty thin (i.e. "sharp"). That said, yes, I do resling my cams with Titan Spectra. And it is weaker...

From: John Byrnes

All my cams are set up with 5.5mm spectra/kevlar/whatever to form an 8 to 10" loop. Position the knot (double or triple fishermans) about 3/4ths of the way from the cam. Put a thin piece of tape about 1/2" from the stem to short-circuit the loop and form an "8" with a big loop and a small loop. Leave just enough room to be able to clip a biner between the tape and the stem in case you want to use it as a quickdraw in a pinch. The tape keeps the loop from shifting, the knot out of the way, and keeps things hanging neatly on the rack. Eventually, the cord will take a "set" which you'll find beneficial.

Color-code the cord to match the color of the Mfg's sling. This way, you'll still have a "Yellow Camalot" for your less retentive partners. Use soft cord.

I've found that the smaller the cam, the longer the sling should be (at least for free climbing) because the smaller springs allow the cam to walk more easily. Smaller persons may find having cams bashing them in the knees to be a problem. Ignore their whining.

Now you can place a cam without having to put a draw on it. You can carry fewer draws. Your rack will be lighter. You can place, clip and be moving sooner. You might start to consider dumping all those wired stoppers and replacing them with roped stoppers...

From: Patrice10

I recently re-slung my smaller BD cams with double loops of Supertape. I used water knots, pulled 'em tight with pliers, then machine-stitched the ends of the tape (heavy-duty thread, straight stitch; not a bartack). Real pleased with the results. I also reslung my flexi-Friends, but with just a single loop; hole's too small, ya see.

It seems to me you could use a double loop of webbing to sling any cam that will accommodate two layers of webbing and which is designed to be slung (i.e. isn't just bare wire cable, for example the o-o-o-old Camalots). Somehow I'm just not tempted to use skinny cordage to accomplish double-slinging my Friends. To be strong enough yet still small enough in diameter to fit thru the hole, wouldn't it have to be Kevlar-ish or something stiff like that, thereby making it hard to extend the double loof when clipping? That's what I think, anyway.

From: Matt Kingsley

Can anyone recomend what I should use to resling my WC rigid friends. Sling? 5.5 Spectra?

If you use spectra watch out for the knot sliding apart. I think a triple fishermans is recommended, but I would consult one of the "knot" books first.

Best course of action is to get Wild Country to resling them for you. That way you will get the whole thing cehcked out.

From: Shane Glynn

Can a normal sewing machine make strong bar tacks or do I need a special machine?

Sorry, but there is a special machine that you need to make bar tacks of any real strength. A normal sewing machine won't cut it. (It might *look* strong enough, but it's not!)

If you need to fix the slings on SLCD's, I hear that FISH will put in the bar tacks for some nominal fee if you send them your cams and webbing.

From: Russ Walling

Very true. Bartack machines are a special breed and cost several thousand dollars. A good heavy duty upholstery sewing machine with the right thread can make runners and slings etc. Not the type of thing to try some lonely saturday evening while drunk, but good results can be obtained quite easily if you use your head. Need more info? Email me.

See also:

Reslinging Camalots and Part 2 on Climerware
New slings for Camalots on Toadhall Rock Climbing
What should I do if my tri-cams need new slings? on Tradgirl

Where should I get broken trigger wires repaired? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Russ Walling, Fish Products

Russ, does Fish still do replacements, and if so, for which types of cams?

Yep... still do. $4.00 for a single side and $6.00 for both.... Shipping flat rate $5.00. All types of cams. We'll look at anything. We are also the "official" repair station for all Trango Cams. Call them up and they will tell you what to do.

From: Nate Beckwith

Of course, if you are in the Valley, have T. Tech fix 'em...

From: Eric Coomer

He's a valley "regular." There are ALWAYS "cam mechanics" in the valley pretty much year round. Put a not on the board, or stop by the deli and look for someone with a LOT of empty OE cans in front of them (though tucker is usually good about tossing the empties so he's not a walking "I'm drunk" sign). I believe most cam mechanics are around $3-4 per side. dunno for sure.

They're nice of course, because if you're in the valley, it's on the spot (or maybe next day) service.

From: Brent Ware

Forrest Gardner, Vermin Equipment, I've got the address around here someplace. Good price, fast turnaround, and his trigger repairs are absolutely bulletproof. Heavy duty high quality stainless steel cable and swage. Eventually all my BD cams will have had their triggers replaced by him and I'll never have to send another off.

From: Wayne Busch

Forest Gardner's Vermin Equipment and Supply in Ringold, Georgia. Phone 706.866.1407

CCH Aliens

From: Peter

Send it in to CCH they can replace it for $5 or so. they did mine really quick. It came back all lubed and smooth.

From: Jim Melo

Hey just wanted to let everyone know that I sent back a couple of cams to CCH for some refurbishing. Their new address is 115 Lyon, Laramie, WY 82070.

They fixed em up good as new and didn't even charge me and sent them back free of charge. NOT BAD!!! They were very helpful. Sure their cams get a bit sticky but when they are working there is nothing better!!! THANK YOU CCH. but now that they are in wyoming are they going to become WCH?

Note: (307) 721-9385

Black Diamond Camalots

From: MadDog

do climbing stores still sell replacement triggers for old style Camalots?

Not many stores carry them but last time I checked (6 months ago), Black Diamond still stocked them.

From: Nate Beckwith

BD still sells triggers for the old and new Camalots. Call them or have a better shop special order them for you.

Unfortunately, the current replacement triggers for the old Camalots suck. The trigger itself is round and difficult to actuate. I suggest you go to a small repair shop ( like the more traditional hardware stores ) and have them build a trigger kit around your old plastic trigger; or better, give them the cam and have them fix only the frayed sections. It isn't that difficult of a job. The materials are readily available. Best of all, it will probably be cheaper than the cost of a BD trigger kit.

REI - new style Camalot (post-1994) trigger replacement kits
Black Diamond - old and new style Camalot trigger replacement kits

Wild Country Friends

From: Alex Feinberg

Friend trigger kits are also available but much harder to find. To re-trigger Friends, you can sent them to: Wild Country, 624 Main St., Conway, NY 03818. Last time I checked triggers cost $9 and new sewn slings cost $5.

From: Martin le Roux

The Friend trigger kits work only with the old-style rigid shaft Friends. For flexi Friends you have little choice but to send them back to Wild Country, as the only way to repair them is break and re-swage the join between the cable and trigger wire.

Having had to do this a couple of times I can report that Wild Country is **slow**. Both times it's taken several months and a number of phone calls before I got my Friends back. If you figure out (a) the cost of the repairs, (b) mailing costs and (c) the inconvenience of having to do without for a couple of months, and weigh this up against the expected remaining useful lifetime of the piece, you might well conclude as I did that it sometimes makes more sense just to go out and buy a brand new one.

mgear.com - variety of Wild Country trigger replacement kits

Metolius

From: Metolius's Website

Metolius will replace slings or trigger wires on our cams for a nominal fee. We don’t offer repair kits for the triggers because we like to get damaged or worn cams back in-house for a thorough inspection.

How do I make my own replacement trigger wires? [back to top] [FAQ contents]

From: Bill Wright, 9/16/1992

This super nice guy showed me how to replace just the cable (not the entire trigger or even the solid wire that is attached to the cams but just the wire) by hammering off the swage connecting the braided wire to the cable. Then he simply cut a piece of cable (purchased at your friendly neighborhood nautical supply house -- maybe even at a hardware store) the proper length, threaded it through the trigger (which was still attached to the friend because we only replaced one of the cables) and used a 3BX29 super deluxe swager to reconnect the cable back to the solid wire with a couple of swages. This worked like a charm!

From: themadco, 11/29/2001

I have been making my own triggers for about six years out of sturgeon fishing leader material. It is super strong cable coated with a Teflon that keeps them from kinking. The swages are sold along side of them in different diameters. I have never bought a second roll of cable, just swages. They also have a cool little swaging pliers for them also.

Here is the name of the material manufacturer I was talking about, 7Strand Tackle Corp. I have been using the 90wn cable (coated). They say to use the A7 sleeves but I think I have been using A5 sleeves as well. Try both. For cams that have the rigid part of the trigger preformed into the cam, like small tcu, I leave the wire in place and cut the swage in half with a Dremel tool or grinder. Then all you have to do is replace the cable. Something I just started doing is using really solid wire for the rigid part of the trigger. I use a pair of needle nose to form a small loop in the rigid wire that would take some pulling to undo (like a cold shut). Now you don't have to attach the cable to the rigid wire. Send one end of the cable through the sleeve, then through the loop you made in your wire and then put the end of cable back into sleeve. Now it is attached like a link of chain.

I am hoping this will alleviate the trigger breaking at the swage all together. Just using the Teflon coated wire makes your triggers last five times longer then the factory ones.

From: Brutus of Wyde, 11/30/2001

I use 1/16" cable and 0.062" music wire. standard 1/16" swage sleeves work well with this. Re-enforce the cable/swage with electrical heat shrink tubing. This works well even on standard off-the-shelf trigger kits.

I use a pair of needle nose to form a small loop in the rigid wire that would take some pulling to undo (like a cold shut).

Music wire is so tough that it would be impossible to make said loop. Prior to swaging, the end must be either bent out slightly, or scored with a cutting tool for friction to ensure it stays in the swage sleeve.

I second the comment about getting a cable cutting tool... getting a cleanly cut cable without one is really difficult.

Note: 1/16" cable is slightly thicker than that used on Friends and Camalots, so it is necessary to slightly enlarge (by drill) the holes in the triggers and cams when using it, but so far I have never had a cable break after replacing with this stuff. (in 20 years of rebuilding triggers)

From: Doug Chinnery, 11/29/2001

I've been making my own with stainless steel deraileur cable from a bike shop, small guage stainless wire from Home Depot, and crimpable swages to join the two. The swages crimp nicely with any sort of wire crimpers.

I've also started putting heatshrink tubes over the joints to make them a bit smoother and it also seems to keep the cables running a bit straighter, which lessed the wear.

I've never had one fail and all the homebrew ones are in great shape still after a few seasons of hard use, while the BD trigger kits have needed to be replaced. $15 bought me enough materials to build 50 or so trigger kits.

Where are you getting your swages? Home depot also? I haven't found ones small enough that I like.

Na, I couldn't find them ther, either. I went to a fasteners dealer. Here in Vancouver its CTF fasteners. I was able to get a dozen or so small ones, but now all I can get are the double holed thingies. They work just fine, although they definately don't look quite as slick as the smaller ones.

From: Dwight Haymes, 11/29/2001

Use the swager at the hardware store. You can get the cable cut to length, get them swaged right there. The cashier ought to give you an odd look when you lay the cam down on the counter.

From: Clint Cummins, 11/30/2001

I use a "17-B4 Nicopress" swaging tool that I bought years ago from A5 Adventures for about $20. Cable (I use the stainless steel) and swages (copper nickel) should be available from West Marine, although I have used other sources. I also bought a specialized cable cutter, because plain wire cutters frayed the cable ends so much they were hard to thread through the trigger bar. It's been great for repairing Friends, TCUs, and even Camalots.

From: Rick D, 12/7/1998

go find a "wire rope" dealer and buy the #0 Nicopress tool (I forget the number-might be B-17? 3/64" --under $30) (or similar Taiwan version), some Nicopress ovals swedges (the copper Nicopress brands are the best), and some aircraft cable (3/64") and then find a shop that has piano string (I just matched the size, one spool lasts 1,500 repairs)--and go into business for yourself. The "push rod" wire (piano) I bought survives 15 times the cycles of bending the stock Camalot stuff. If you want heads, get the Nicopress "GGMP 64" tool (with cutter) with the bench mount and now you can do #1, #2, #3, and #4 heads all day long.

From: Tom Donnelly, 11/30/2001

A friend of mine showed me how he repairs them with wire only. Works for 4 cam units. No rigid wire or swages needed. Just run a good wire, like bicycle wire, from one cam, thru the trigger, and down to the other cam. Bend the ends over, with about .2 inch of extra cable. Smash the ends down with pliers. Put a bead of solder on each end to cover up all the sharp wires.

I've only tried it on old dual stem Camalots but I assume it would work on other 4 cam units.

From: Clint Cummins, 12/1/2001

If you are threading "cable" through the cam, then it sounds like a lot more work than just crimping the swages, since you have to remove the old wire. (This is another reason I didn't like replacement trigger bars; reswaging is easier, plus you usually only have to do one side). Also, the surface on the cable rotating in the cam will generate more friction and accumulate more dirt than the original thick bent wire. So I think there would be a performance loss (as Ron noted as well).

Perhaps the cable would not break as often, since it would not face the bending point at the swage. But the frequency of breaking is not that big a deal if you already have the tools to repair it. You can just wait until about 1/4 or 1/3 of the strands are broken, and fix it. I like the "shrink tubing" idea to reinforce/stiffen the swage/cable junction area. But I'm a little concerned that it would make visual inspection for broken strands more difficult.

Years ago, I scored 2 booty cams from one pitch on the Central Pillar of Frenzy. One of them used thick nylon fishing line instead of cable! (Yes, the nylon line had broken).

One problem I have with the stainless cable is that it will not form a permanent bend at the trigger bar. So the cable will move through the bar sometimes and make the cams imbalanced.

From: Tom Dunwiddie, 12/8/1998

You know, the other way to make your trigger wires last longer is just to put a little blob of epoxy where the wire meets the swage. That way it can't flex at a sharp angle at that point, and doesn't fray.

See also:

BD Camelot Triggers ( Again ), 6/26/2001 (problem with the cable loop popping out of the trigger handle)

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